Thread: PTR 3.1.0 - Build 9637

Originally Posted by MuTe

Imo its only fair that a spec wich has no CC (Beast Mastery) Also has a high resistance against CC.

Frost Trap. Freezing Trap. Concussion Shot. Intimidation. Charge/Swoop. Scatter Shot. Entrapment. Wing Clip. Sonic Blast. Snatch. Froststorm Breath. Nether Shock. Ravage. Poison Spit. Venom Web Spray. Web. Lava Breath. Tendon Rip. Pin. Pummel.

Originally Posted by Mushin

Frost Trap. Freezing Trap. Concussion Shot. Intimidation. Charge/Swoop. Scatter Shot. Entrapment. Wing Clip. Sonic Blast. Snatch. Froststorm Breath. Nether Shock. Ravage. Poison Spit. Venom Web Spray. Web. Lava Breath. Tendon Rip. Pin. Pummel.

Do you really think, naming ALL the hunter CC abilities in all different trees + ALL the pet abilities every unique pet race has makes you sound intelligent?

BM with scatter shot?
BM with entrapment?
Traps share cd so its either frost or freeze?
You call charge a CC?
You call Pummel a CC?
You call Lava Breath a CC?
You call Poison spit a CC?
Nethershock, Sonic blasts CC?

Gtfo

Originally Posted by MuTe

Do you really think, naming ALL the hunter CC abilities in all different trees + ALL the pet abilities every unique pet race has makes you sound intelligent?

BM with scatter shot?
BM with entrapment?
Traps share cd so its either frost or freeze?
You call charge a CC?
You call Pummel a CC?
You call Lava Breath a CC?
You call Poison spit a CC?
Nethershock, Sonic blasts CC?

Gtfo

Are you seriously trying to argue that hunters are not one of the best kiting classes in the game, it not the best? If so, rofl.

Originally Posted by MuTe

Do you really think, naming ALL the hunter CC abilities in all different trees + ALL the pet abilities every unique pet race has makes you sound intelligent?

CC abilities I didn't name because they were more than 11 points into another tree or of limited use against a limited number of classes: Concussive Barrage, Silencing Shot, Immolation Trap/Explosive Trap/Explosive Shot, Counterattack, Wyvern Sting, Scare Beast.

Originally Posted by MuTe

BM with scatter shot?
BM with entrapment?
Traps share cd so its either frost or freeze?
You call charge a CC?
You call Pummel a CC?
You call Lava Breath a CC?
You call Poison spit a CC?
Nethershock, Sonic blasts CC?

Fair point - it's very unreasonable to expect someone to spend 11 points for pvp utility instead of sinking 71 into the one talent tree.

Yes, roots, spell lockouts, slows, silences and stuns are all categories of CC.


And yes, a BM hunter has access to ALL the pet abilities of every species. That's actually their 51 talent.

Originally Posted by Archon

The real point is that in 213+ ilvl gear survival are still topping damage meters pretty easily. What hybrid class do you think is getting close? Dk's, and their top spec is getting nerfed this patch too. No one else. Honestly, you referring to survival as being "nerfed into the ground" is completely ridiculous. With black arrow it will be a different play style, but very similar dps to what it was if you're playing it correctly.

And you really shouldn't argue it being op in pvp, because everyone knows it. It's not even debatable. This relatively small nerf will only help even it out a little bit. Don't don't go saying "YOU DON'T PLAY A HUNTER YOU DON'T KNOW!!!" because i do, and I'm hardly upset about this tiny nerf. Survival Hunters will still be top 5 in 25's easy if you know how to play it, and survival will still be a viable hunter pvp spec.

Hybrids arent supposed to get close! They are not PURE DPS classes, Hybrids have way more utility in raids then PURE dps classes. Do you really expect they should do the same amount of DPS, and can offtank/offheal at the same time, and bring along great buffs? I also didnt say that YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY HUNTER. But the guy i was quoting said BM Hunters is a 4 button class, i said he cant be taken seriously. But if you agree with him and also use only 4 buttons as a BM hunter, then you dont know how to play hunter. There i said it!

Originally Posted by Archon

Are you seriously trying to argue that hunters are not one of the best kiting classes in the game, it not the best? If so, rofl.

Eh no?! I havent mentioned the word "kite" once. I said BM hunters havent got much CC abilities, therefor require to have high CC resistance. And the guy that i quoted is trying to me a smart ass and name all the CC's that are available to ALL hunters trees and ALL hunter specs and ALL pets in the entire game to prove his point BM hunters DO have CC. And that my friend is just plain dumb.

And if you wanne talk about kiting. Hunters HAVE to kite in order to survive, BM hunters have the least amount of CC to be able to kite good. Therefor they need BW.
BM hunters only have:

Intimidation: short 3 sec stun (on pet next attack, hard to time properly) 1 minute CD.
CC shot: short 4 sec slow effect, 30 sec CD.
Wingclip: 10 sec slow effect, only in MELEE range.
Frost or Freeze trap: 30 sec CD, easy to dispell, or to freedom urself out of.
A pet ability: You can only have 1 of the special abilities that helps with CC at the cost of DMG mostly. Most are on also on a 40 sec CD and last for 2 to 4 sec.

BM has the least amount of CC's available, they cant stop casters from casting, cant interrupt, cant lockdown anyone. And im not saying they HAVE to, but they NEED the immunity to CC, otherwise the spec would be useless.

Originally Posted by Mushin

CC abilities I didn't name because they were more than 11 points into another tree or of limited use against a limited number of classes: Concussive Barrage, Silencing Shot, Immolation Trap/Explosive Trap/Explosive Shot, Counterattack, Wyvern Sting, Scare Beast.

Fair point - it's very unreasonable to expect someone to spend 11 points for pvp utility instead of sinking 71 into the one talent tree.

Yes, roots, spell lockouts, slows, silences and stuns are all categories of CC.


And yes, a BM hunter has access to ALL the pet abilities of every species. That's actually their 51 talent.

No BM hunter in the right mind can have acces to Intimidation, Entrapment and Scattershot in the same time without being a utter noob.
And again Immolation trap, Explosive trap are NOT cc's. Scare Beast IS a CC and available to ALL hunters, only vs beasts (druids).
You have no clue what a hunter is, yet you try to argue with someone who has been playing hunter for 4 years?

Your right to say roots, spell lockouts, slows, silences and stuns are all categories of CC, but a BM hunter doesnt have silence and spell lockouts. Also they can only have 1 pet ability at the same time, wich is most likely on a 40 second CD. They have 1 really short stun on a huge CD, 1 really short ranged slow, 1 descent melee slow,1 trap that shares CDs and 1 pet ability with a really shot duration on a really big CD.

Whats the point in arguing with someone who just looks at a talent tree to state his point.

Originally Posted by MuTe

No BM hunter in the right mind can have acces to Intimidation, Entrapment and Scattershot in the same time without being a utter noob.

Yes, I'm sure many BM hunters would prefer to pvp with no CC at all not much CC in their pve spec. They would not be noobs at all.

Originally Posted by MuTe

And again Immolation trap, Explosive trap are NOT cc's. Scare Beast IS a CC and available to ALL hunters, only vs beasts (druids).

They are if you have TNT. Hunter pets are also beasts, as can be shaman. You will also note I excluded that from my initial list as it had limited applications (hunter pets, druids, shaman) rather than universal.

Originally Posted by MuTe

Your right to say roots, spell lockouts, slows, silences and stuns are all categories of CC, but a BM hunter doesnt have silence and spell lockouts. Also they can only have 1 pet ability at the same time, wich is most likely on a 40 second CD. They have 1 really short stun on a huge CD, 1 really short ranged slow, 1 descent melee slow,1 trap that shares CDs and 1 pet ability with a really shot duration on a really big CD.

You have silence and spell lockouts available as a pet ability. Regardless, you've already admitted you were being histrionic when you stated that BM was "a spec wich has no CC", and that was the point I wished to correct you on.

Originally Posted by MuTe

Whats the point in arguing with someone who just looks at a talent tree to state his point.

I know, it's so much easier arguing with people who don't even look at their spells or what their class can do and just make baseless complaints about how much their class sucks because OMFG they've been playing for FOUR WHOLE YEARS.

Originally Posted by Mushin

Yes, I'm sure many BM hunters would prefer to pvp with no CC at all not much CC in their pve spec. They would not be noobs at all.

I lolled at this. ;D If you would spec Intimidation, Entrapment and Scatter shot at the same time, you can better become a MELEE huntard since you wont do any ranged DPS.

They are if you have TNT. Hunter pets are also beasts, as can be shaman. You will also note I excluded that from my initial list as it had limited applications (hunter pets, druids, shaman) rather than universal.

BM hunter dont have TNT!! > And if BM hunters had Explosive shot, they would have 2x 51 talents trees............

You have silence and spell lockouts available as a pet ability. Regardless, you've already admitted you were being histrionic when you stated that BM was "a spec wich has no CC", and that was the point I wished to correct you on.

Pets dont have silence and spell lockouts. Ur confusing with Warlocks :-X

I know, it's so much easier arguing with people who don't even look at their spells or what their class can do and just make baseless complaints about how much their class sucks because OMFG they've been playing for FOUR WHOLE YEARS.

What game are you playing anyway?

Originally Posted by MuTe

BM hunter dont have TNT!! Angry And if BM hunters had Explosive shot, they would have 2x 51 talents trees............

Originally Posted by Mushin

CC abilities I didn't name because they were more than 11 points into another tree

That list was purely because you claimed I was "naming ALL the hunter CC abilities in all different trees". The same way the first list was because you claimed BM spec has "NO cc". Keep up.

Originally Posted by MuTe

Pets dont have silence and spell lockouts. Ur confusing with Warlocks

Pummel and Nether Shock are spell lockouts. Yes, I brain farted on the silence because this conversation has been ridiculous and I started losing track of which spec's CCs we were talking about because there are so many of them compared to other classes.

Originally Posted by Mushin

That list was purely because you claimed I was "naming ALL the hunter CC abilities in all different trees". The same way the first list was because you claimed BM spec has "NO cc". Keep up.

Pummel and Nether Shock are spell lockouts. Yes, I brain farted on the silence because this conversation has been ridiculous and I started losing track of which spec's CCs we were talking about because there are so many of them compared to other classes.

In that list you named abilities that dont make scense for a BM hunter to spec. You also named Frost Trap and Freezing Trap, yet forget to mention they share cd. You also named alot of pet abilities that have nothing to do with CC, and forget to mention you can only have 1 of em per pet.

Pummel isnt in game yet. And when it does hit live, TNT stuns are removed from game, and wyvern sting is nerf badly. Also back arrow shares CD with traps, so you must either choose the Extra DPS or CC. Yet this is all survival hunter. We are talking about BM hunter here. Your right on the spelllock for Nether Shock, i personally never had that pet since his ability seem rather weak compared to some other CC abilites. Again only 1 CC ability is available per Hunter Pet, and i would only take the best one for PVP.

I think that raiding on PTR in Ulduar so far what i saw is to damn easy, killed few bosses already on PTR with pug that is not decent hardness like Naxx before TBC or BWL where you need to play alot to get decent gear for playing raids and bosses was alot harder then today Blizzard would need atlest get higher hp for bosses

Originally Posted by Daez

Here is an idea. Remove stuns from the game, or at the very least remove stun lock. I don't know very many bosses that aren't immune to stun lock, so it wouldn't be a pve nerf, and the biggest problem people have with rogues is they can kill you before you escape their stun lock. That change would balance the field in pvp and leave pvp unaffected.

I'd be more then happy to give up my stuns for PLATE armor.

Umm the trees are not working. it maybe that there just not compleate but the DK trees didnt load right.

Originally Posted by Maximus

Umm WAAH WAHHH WAWHHH WAHHHH

lulz

Originally Posted by Langebrød

I'd be more then happy to give up my stuns for PLATE armor.

Agreed Langebrød. For those of you who continue to moan and complain about rogues stun locking have you ever taken the time to watch what happens to a rogue that doesn't stun lock? They get demolished so if your going to say remove stun locking from the game then give rogues the right to use plate armor so we still have some use in pvp