Savage Defense - keep it real

[arel00]

Ok so. It did raised some doubts to hear about this internal CD thing. So I went around looking.

This is what I just found:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....46766551&sid=1

This is a last minute report. As you can see, SD isn't implemented yet. So I STRONGLY invite people not to drop bombs about presumed cooldowns on a skill that is not even there and thus impossible to test.

Keep it real. So please if you're going to state such things when QQing, either a) post a PROOF about it, with a reliable source, or b) gtfo.

[Deleted]

SAVAGE DEFENSE IS GOING TO MAKE US INFERTILE! Its true! I saw a blue post about it, but i cant find it again. I didn't make it up, i swear.

All the speculation is fine, but it doesn't do us any good until we can actually test it. There are so many factors that we dont know yet. We can speculate about it though, but all the calculations in the world is not going to help until we find out how it turns out - and then whine about it for a month so Blizzard makes it better

I got shook yesterday though, when somebody tried to start a rumor that Blizzard wasn't even going to implement SD - i was suddenly scared that it might be true, but really, with the recent changes we've had, we would need something like SD to make up for it

In the end, we're all excited to see how SD will work out, but we will just have to brace ourselves and wait.

[Elunedra]

and then whine about it for a month so Blizzard makes it better

dont wurrie we are just practicing the whine already :P

[baseball]

In the end, we're all excited to see how SD will work out, but we will just have to brace ourselves and wait.

I dunno -- lotta scrubs already posting about how much it sucks and QQing about how sad it is that they can't be mana sponges anymore. There's like 5 posts about the "sad state" of druid tanks on the MMO Champ Druid main page alone. =)

[Martouf]

I dunno -- lotta scrubs already posting about how much it sucks and QQing about how sad it is that they can't be mana sponges anymore. There's like 5 posts about the "sad state" of druid tanks on the MMO Champ Druid main page alone. =)

Right before WotLK it was the same thing on these forums. I swear, druids cry the most out of all the classes. Maybe because we're cute while we do it /use Gnomish World Enlarger

But seriously, speculation is okay as long as people don't whine about it. I doubt whining on these forums would even do any good if there was a valid claim.

[Boringz]

we cry the most coz we're a hybrid class that gets nerfed on both resto and feral all the time.
I've seen a deathknight on PTR who has more unbuffed hp than me as max geared feral druid, he also had more armor and avoidance, I don't think savage defense will be that much of a buff that we'll be equal to death knight tanks..
Back to offtanking, either as panserkin or feral, doesn't matter, they both suck next patch >.<

[arel00]

If he has more total health than you, while he's in Frost Presence, and you're in Bear form, it's either one of these two possibilities: a) he's wearing Sartharion-like full stamina gear, at the inevitable price of avoidance, or b) you're not even close to BiS gear.
We can discuss about avoidance, but that he has more hp than your bearform when equally geared no, I don't believe that. Screenshot or it didn't happen.

[Boringz]

If he has more total health than you, while he's in Frost Presence, and you're in Bear form, it's either one of these two possibilities: a) he's wearing Sartharion-like full stamina gear, at the inevitable price of avoidance, or b) you're not even close to BiS gear.
We can discuss about avoidance, but that he has more hp than your bearform when equally geared no, I don't believe that. Screenshot or it didn't happen.

go to the ptr and have fun, i've seen a dk with 38.5k unbuffed in frost presence..
if u dont believe it i dont friggen care tbh coz ur just a nobody trying to troll my reply
i have 38k unbuffed on ptr atm

[Ektoplasme]

You compare apples and oranges my friend... You don't even know hist gear. If he has better gear than you then I hope he has better avoidance/health. With equal gear, there is no way a DK has more health than a druid. When you QQ, try to do it in an intelligent way -_-

[Boringz]

You compare apples and oranges my friend... You don't even know hist gear. If he has better gear than you then I hope he has better avoidance/health. With equal gear, there is no way a DK has more health than a druid. When you QQ, try to do it in an intelligent way -_-

equal gear, both full valorous and rest 213, m8, druid health got nerfed, and dk can have alot of hp depending on spec

[Refreshment]

Not good at druids, but maybe one scale better then the other depending on (the dk's) specc on the PTR?
From what I know the druid health talent got nerfed to 10%. DK's get 10% from Frost Presence and up to an additional 8% from talents (very unusual, only recommend this specc for Sarth3d MT'ing due to low TPS).

Remember that druids might have more stamina on their gear and that DK's surpass this when raid buffs joins the game.

Btw, health isn't everything, avoidence is good too, I prefer a good balance, let's just hope the Savage Defense turns out good, otherwise I'm sure Blizzard will adress the issue with druid tanking.

[getefix]

go to the ptr and have fun, i've seen a dk with 38.5k unbuffed in frost presence..
if u dont believe it i dont friggen care tbh coz ur just a nobody trying to troll my reply
i have 38k unbuffed on ptr atm

If you have 38k unbuffed then you're gemming and enchanting for stam, so I'm not surprised you don't have a lot of avoidance.
lawl

Boringz
Newbie
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Posts: 20

arel00
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 577

pretty sure you're the nobody.

DK's don't have 38k HP unbuffed unless they're going purely for stam.

dk can have alot of hp depending on spec

we have over 8% more health than DKs. The nerf didn't drop us to be under DK's.

[Boringz]

If you have 38k unbuffed then you're gemming and enchanting for stam, so I'm not surprised you don't have a lot of avoidance.
lawl

Boringz
Newbie
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Posts: 20

arel00
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 577

pretty sure you're the nobody.

DK's don't have 38k HP unbuffed unless they're going purely for stam. we have over 8% more health than DKs. The nerf didn't drop us to be under DK's.

enchanting yes, gemming no, fully stam gemmed i wud have over 41k on live unbuffed, which is prolly 39 on ptr..
I find 40% dodge unbuffed enough for tanking sarth 3d, it's offspec
Amount of posts doesn't impress me still, and the a and b thing is not what i did mind, the screenshot or didnt happen is a bit of a fag answer for me..
like i said, i wudnt bother with such a person, and let's not get off the topic about savage defense.. kkthxbye :-)

[getefix]

link armory plz

[Boringz]

link armory plz

first of all, armory is down,
2nd of all, it's offspec and my char on live is balance atm, and feral on ptr

[arel00]

go to the ptr and have fun, i've seen a dk with 38.5k unbuffed in frost presence..
if u dont believe it i dont friggen care tbh coz ur just a nobody trying to troll my reply
i have 38k unbuffed on ptr atm

Yes you're right, I'm just an unknown random troll. Unfortunately for you, I'm also a troll that loves facts:

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ridon&n=Zkygge

This guy, is Endisia's best geared DK. When I found his armory, he was, luckily, wearing full Frost Res gear. Let's take a look:
He has 33981HP, unbuffed. He's not using all the stamina talents, but he has Shadow of Death (2% stamina) that will disappear next patch, so it's not on the PTR. Considering this, we'll give him 4% extra stamina, assuming he may have Veteran of the Third War, giving him 6%, but will lose Shadow of Death. This extra stamina, namely 103, will make his total health 35014. Add Frost Presence on top of that, and you get 38516HP.

So you get a DK with the said health. Let's now have a look at a druid:



This is me, on the PTR. For the purpose of equal confronting, I wore my Frost res gear. We did talk about equal gear, didn't we? As you can see from white stats, armor one of these, I'm unbuffed, not even MotW.
The DK is gemmed straight for stamina, but my head (1), shoulders (1), wrists (1), gloves (1) and legs (1) are gemmed for agility (saved for one on the legs, which is actually sta/exp). That makes a total of 5 agility gems, versus 5 stamina gems. If I gem straight for stamina, that means 24*5=120stamina. With the *new* modifiers, we get 2% from ImpMotW, 6% form SotF, 10% from HotW and 25% from Bear, for a total of 43%. Now, 120*1.43=171.6, that is 1716HP. If you take my total, 37707HP, and you add that, you get a new, total value of 39423HP.

As you can see, a druid on equal footing has more. To be even more exact, I'm a herbalist/enchanter, so I get a benefit from 2*24sta ring enchants. He's a JC/BS, thus benefitting from 2*24sta gems from the extra BS sockets (paired with my enchants), 3*41sta gems, and the JC-only trinket with loads of stamina. These last two add up for a total of 123sta (before modifiers) that I don't have access to. Over a thousand health. And I'm still higher.

As I said regarding SD at the beginning of this thread: if you want to drop bombs about how we should QQ for nerfs, be serious and back it up with reliable proofs. Because as long as it's just your word, you *know* you're gonna get a bitch like me that proves you wrong with sheer numbers.

Edited to add: generally, DKs and other classes won't scale as well as druids on stamina. After the nerf, druids have a total of 43% modifier on the base stamina value, which is over two times more than DKs, second with 16% (a little higher, if you consider FP works on health), followed by paladins with 14% and warriors with 6% (all numbers from PTR).

[Boringz]

well atleast u take the time to proove me wrong with real proof, ive been on wow-europe ptr forums for a few days now and i'd wish ppl wud put so much effort into real calculations like u just did here, but yes, i think the dk u've seen has equal health to the 1 i've seen yes. then again i didn't wear frost resi gear but didn't gem agi either, i got 12 stam 8 dodge in most blue and red sockets atm, this was just a choice to keep balanced enough for sarth 10 man 3d tanking and having enough dodge for maintanking any naxx boss and maly if needed.

if u read 17 pages on byebye druid tank post on wow-europe forum ptr section, u see a guy comming up with his "Druid is by far better than warrior so they shud be nerfed" seeing a DK has the posibility to go for 38.5k hp, not saying this is every adviced to do, but he has the option, druids have the option to reach a tiny bit more than a DK but we still lose it on mitigation like armor and we wud prolly lose on dodge / parry aswell if we wud both gem pure stam. also a fun fact for this reply, the dk I saw has a 30 stam 15 resi shoulder enchant, prolly coz he didnt have sons of hodir rep high enough, also the DK u've found doesn't have the highest health enchant on chest, which isnt alot of hp dif but still a tiny bit, all these tiny bits lead to a bunch of health together. also, the legs of the DK u've selected are nice, but if u take the valorous pants of DK and put 2 times 24 stam in it is also another 4 stam dif.

but ofc, never said it was adviced to get so much hp, but it defo proofs that DKs can get the health pool nearly as much as druid, or even over druid depending on what they gem.

and really, if u have the max stam stuff u dont need frost resi to get to the 38.5k hp. the frost resi ring and gear the guy on ur armory wears gimps himself by even more than a regular guy that gems pure stam. gear still has base stats, and for most bosses u dont even need more than base stats if u have naxx 25 gear..

but comming back to ur reply, the guy I've seen had full valorous gear on, not 3 pieces of frost resi, neither was I, but a thing u cud add in my DK's calculations is that he wasnt a night elf, nor am I, we were both Tauren. and as u know tauren has more health than a night elf. both me and the dk were JC, but also mining, and mining grants u more hp than enchanting, and also more than blacksmith, a blacksmith is 2 extra sockets which is a max of 2*24 stamina which leads to 48, mining is just a solid 50 which is 2 stam more, which isnt alot but it is still 2 stam dif.

[Flamingcloud]

That Ensidia dk is not crit immune.

[Boringz]

That Ensidia dk is not crit immune.

rofl :-)

[shadow_shaman]

That Ensidia dk is not crit immune.

you dont have to be as sart tank flames cant crit