Flame Leviathan, Yogg-Saron Brain's Room

[Hubbl3]

Ulduar will be so kicking ass in terms of warcraft lore

[Colt]

I'll need to watch the Wrathgate again to get a feel of Bolver's voice, but the first person to come to my mind was Tiron, then i thought for a second, maybe this is Morgraine's Son

While it can turn out to be Bolver, i think Darion should be on the list of candidates for the captured person

[Devidose]

I like how Deathwings voice has Yogg-Saron's echoing it quietly just off sync.

[Qwios]

Been playing the new Ulduar, Wrathgate, and Battle for Lights Hope Chapel audio back and forth for a few minutes, and to me it's Bolvar or the same voice actor.

[Syrda]

On of the most important questions we'll have to ask us is how much of what Yogg-Saron shows and tells us are mere mind-games and playing tricks on the players, since the fight seems to circle around the Sanity buff.
Therefore the entire process of asking us questions in how far Yogg-Saron was involved in or if he even set these events in motion might be the only desired effect, with the goal being to weaken our minds. While this is a rather funny thing to think of while discussing the topic on a forum, think about how your character would feel if he'd stand before the being that is *posibly* responsible for the world's darkest moments.

1 - in the books, garona see's a vision of herself killing the king.... then she actually kills the king.. we don't really know why in the books... now we do... YS was whispering to her "a thousand deaths or 1 murder"

It is believed that the Shadow Council ordered the assassination, at least she indicates that by responding "The orc leaders agree with your assessment." to Llane's "As long as men with stout hearts are manning the walls and the throne, Stormwind will hold." just before killing him.

To 2.: Yeah, as I said, it's a rather long shot ...

Yet still, both of the explanations you gave are plausible, I'm just pointing out that there are other ways of interpreting the events, which again leads to my introductory thoughts.

Is it possible that it's the Old Gods that are the force behind the visions in (or are possibly even involved in creating) Karazhan?

If Yoggy can show us mere raiders visions of the past and present, like he seems to be doing in Ulduar, then what's to stop him or another Old God from showing lore figures such as Garona, Khadgar and Moroes, visions of the future?

It is possible, I agree, but we can't say anything for certain.

Another thing to consider

Didn't Malygos want to redirect all ley lines to the Nexus and shoot all the magic collected from them into the Nether in his mad quest to eradicate all magic users? My theory is that old Maly knows something that we don't (yet) know, whether it be about the Old Gods, Karazhan, The Legion, or something else altogether, and that running in there and killing him was a mistake on our parts. The fact that Yoggy corrupted Deathwing and had him almost decimate the Blue Dragonflight during the War of the Ancients, combined with the Yoggy quote "His brood learned their lesson before too long!" means that Yoggy seemed to have it in for Malygos. We basically finished what Yoggy started through Deathwing ages ago by killing Malygos. This seems to be keeping in with the first WOTLK trailer, where Arthas states "You were following in my footsteps all along".

This is a very interesting thought, but again, we cannot be certain...

A third thought:

The theme of the the first two visions is betrayal...Garona betrays Llane, and Deathwing betrays his fellow Aspects. The third one is Bolvar/Saurfang Jr. that will end up betraying their respective factions by becoming a death knight in the service of the Lich King.

...and being mind-controlled by Yogg-Saron would result in the player betraying his raid...

And a more general note: In the end, all the evil we know of which has come across the Warcraft universe has its source in the Old Gods. After all, they did drive Sargeras insane and therefore formed the Burning Legion, the Eredar, the Scourge, Deathwing, the orcish bloodrush and so on...


Oh, and what comes to my mind:
Do the players' characters have any chance of knowing all of this? Especially considering the second vision I found rather clear at first glance: I doubt that even the dragon aspects know for sure what the cause of Neltharion's corruption is, then how should the players?

Mind games, I tell you.

PS: Guess I'll go to bed now but I'll be happy to rejoin this discussion tomorrow

[leader]

Hey guys, sorry but i didnt know where to go and ask this question, with 3.1 there will be Feat of Strength thing that if u get Honored with Bloodsail Bucanners, exalted with Booty Bay, Gadgetzan, Everlook, Ratchet, Ravenholdt, Shen'dralar, and Darkmoon Faire you will get title The Insane. Now the question, when patch 3.1 comes out, will u still be able to work on it or when the patch comes, thats it, if u had those done, ull get the tittle, if not, u cant work on it anymore after the patch, plz help, .

[abradon]

I am 99 % sure it is Bolvar . His voice , Wrathgate questline , and dialog between Krasus , and Alexstrasza , makes me nearly sure it's him .


On the other hand .
We have heard nothing about Alexandros Mograine . It is told , that he was freed , but where is he now , or what does he do . We do not know .
Maybe , Arthas is trying to take back one of the greatest Death Knight ever :>? And "Him" could be his son , Darion ?

[Amgyn]

my introductory thoughts.

you make really good points there.. much to think about! gnite!

[Apoc_]

I am 99 % sure it is Bolvar . His voice , Wrathgate questline , and dialog between Krasus , and Alexstrasza , makes me nearly sure it's him .


On the other hand .
We have heard nothing about Alexandros Mograine . It is told , that he was freed , but where is he now , or what does he do . We do not know .
Maybe , Arthas is trying to take back one of the greatest Death Knight ever :>? And "Him" could be his son , Darion ?

It could be Darion, but as far as i know, he didn't resist against the lich king's will. (could be wrong please tell me if I am) As for Alex, he was "absorbed" when he appeared in the ending quest for the DK chain.

May i say that Deathwing's voice is....OMG perfect...can we say Grim Batol 3.2?

[Fablewynd]

The Yogg-Saron audio and dialogue sounds absolutely epic! I cannot wait for this fight. Uldar meets Caverns of Time. Amazing.

C
x

[Deleted]

It's incredible all the possibility for the future of the story of WoW.

After I read the traduction of the Alextrazsa phrase (the one in draconnic), it's clear : Bolvar is the prisonner of Arthas, and the "him" of "As I broke him" is Saurfang jr!

But do you think Yogg'saron will die in Ulduar? Sure not, Chris Metzen said that he will not die in Northrend, in a Blizzcast.
So where?

A friend of me thinks Yogg'saron will hide himself in the Emerald Dream (but I don't think so). I'm shared into a lot of possibilities.
The mirror-version of Karazhan under the earth (cf the book "The Last Guardian")? Nazjathar, in the Maelstorm? Uldum (South of Tanaris)?

How big is Yogg'saron? If he had record the scene of the assassination of the King Llane, how far can he go? Or how far can he "listen"? can he crawl under the ground to Azeroth?

[Carpenter]

Understand that Yogg-Saron is not the final Old God. I believe there were 6 that were known. C'thun isn't dead for good and I doubt we completely rid ourselves of Yogg. It is interesting to see that they shaped so much of the history but I doubt that the Lich King is a pawn of the Old Gods because he is at war with Yogg. (Just do some of the Ice Crown quests that confirm this)

[crsh1976]

The Flame Leviathan fight looks like an annoying gimmick encounter to me.

[Asura]

i think the tortured one is Bolvar, maybe the lich king is trying to turn him in a death knight, he says "Your resilience ... is admirable ... I will break you as I broke him" maybe reffering to Alexandros Mograine (ok, kelly turn Alexandros a DK, but was by the lich king orders).
Bolvar as a boss DK in Ice Crown Citadel raid. yeahhh

[Lór]

I'm wondering about the fact, that nobody thinks of Nozdormu.

I mean, we have several flashbacks here, we have many things that happened long ago, we have heavy dragon aspect appearance.
Just think of the Infinite Dragonflight. All their efforts try to influence the timeline and try to change events, events that led to the rising of the Lich King, who seems to dominate Yogg-Saron. Nozdormu is involved in that part in a certain, but unknown, way, as you can see in the quests in Dragonblight at the Emerald Dragonshrine.
And as you can see in previous events, dragons are vulnerable to corruption. Think of Vaelastrasz, Lethon, Taerar, Emeriss, Ysondre, Kalecgos etc.
And now we have Yogg-Saron, the God of Death, master of insanity, damn that content patch has to be great.

[Fablewynd]

Damn that content patch has to be great.

You said it. It will be a massive patch, no doubt, but packed full of so many goodies. I love intricately scripted boss encounters, and hopefully the Yogg-Saron one will be beyond awesome.

C
x

[Glomp]

It's a (crappy) remix of "Propane Nightmares" by Pendulum. Original is far better.

Its actually a well recorded live version. Albeit crappier than the normal version ;p

[Puffy]

At the audio files with LK and prisoner: the fact that prisoner's voice resembles Bolvar one kinda shows its him. I mean it would be stupid to give the voice of a important character to another one.

Which makes me believe LK is actually trying to form Bolvar into a DK of some sort for future Icecrown raid which just makes sense.

LK also says: i will break you like i broke him, could be directing to 3 persons imo: Saurfang, who is alrdy a DK now, the old Arthas who he corrupted or Yogg-Sauron himself. It's mostly Bolvar cause at Wrathgate event Alextrasza says in dragon language: the true faith of the young paladin must not be known, giving a hint he is taken by undead to be resurrected.

What is kinda saying the complete opposite of this all is that the whole event here concering LK is not a thing of the past like the other conversations we see here but more of a present thing.

This is just my opinion but it seems the most realistic judging from the audio-files.

[eva]

UR_YoggSaron_YSVisThree01.wav - *Foreign language*

He says "yajī'u ash-shudhdhādh" which means "the abnormal ones are coming."

[Deleted]

UR_YoggSaron_YSVisThree01.wav - *Foreign language*

He says "yajī'u ash-shudhdhādh" which means "the abnormal ones are coming."

How do you know that? You're a faceless one, now? :P