3.1 Resto druid gemming.

[Porosity22]

Hello folks, I'm wondering if it will be viable at all to gem for pure intellect. While it might seem silly at first I was thinking it could work. But if anyone has any math or details to support it, that would be great.

[Degrador]

16 Int:

Mana regen increased by:

Replenishment regen (assuming you have it 100% of the time):
16*15*0.0025 per second
= 0.6 per second / 3 MP5

Out of combat regen:
(sqrt(1016) - sqrt(1000)) * 1000 * 0.005575 * 0.6 per second
= 0.843 per second

In combat (Intensity):
0.5 * 0.843 per second
= 0.421 per second / 2.1 MP5


Total combat regen increase: 5.1 MP5


16 Spr:

Mana regen increase depends on gear. Assume high end raiding with ~1000 Int & ~1000 Spr when raid buffed. I will assume you have Living Spirit.
Out of combat regen:
sqrt(Int) * 1.15 * 16 * 0.005575 * 0.6 per second
= 1.94 per second / 9.7 MP5

In combat (Intensity):
0.5 * 1.94 per second
= 0.972 per second / 4.9 MP5


Total combat regen increase: 4.9 MP5


So Int does indeed give you more regen than Spirit. This is no different to the current situation though. Note that the above doesn't take into account Innervate - spirit will give about double the amount of mana increase for Innervate compared to Int.

Regen isn't everything though. If you compare the differences to healing output:

Int: Increases spell crit by 1% per 166.67

16 * 1 / 166.67
= 0.096 % crit / 4.41 crit rating

Spr: Spellpower increased by 15% of spirit

1.15 * 16 * 0.15
= 2.76 SP

In terms of itemization points, Int wins here, however you should well know that crit isn't very useful to resto druids while SP is the most important stat for healing output. As such IMO Spirit easily wins out as the better stat between the two.

Having said that, I still would never gem for pure Int / Spirit unless the regen nerfs really hit hard. Always go pure SP or an orange / purple gem with SP if you want the socket bonus.

[Habit]

I agree with degrador: gemming for spell power is still preferable just now, but we'll have to see the outcome of the 3.1 regen nerf before hard numbers can be used.

On a side note, Check out my current talent build (sig is an armory link) - it would skew degrador's numbers slightly further in favor of int (Lunar Guidance) - but this is a pure tank healing build with high spell power and allowing room for haste to reach ~1 second gcd after raid buffs. (as that's my only real interest... let the shammies spam chain heal on the raid pls as intended) ;D

[Jahnaca]

Going to be up front and honest here, the math goes right over my head. I am not a number cruncher, therefore I do rely on those who can do it for some pretty vital information. Me I am a put into use type girl. Taking data and seeing how it works in real life application.

What I often come across on forums like this is people talking in the best case scenario. Not all of us are best case and on paper doesn’t seem to work out exactly that way in reality. Gear, group make up, experience etc all play a vital role in making things a success. In regards to the topic at hand geming for the new patch I believe unique and current are the two key words to use when determining what your going to do. When WOTLK came out and my priest hit 80 she found all that spirit stacking sucked rocks because she forgot spell power and mana pool size. She was spamming heals like no tomorrow. She was never out of the 5 second rule. INT that is what got her through, until such time as she achieved a good mana pool size to deal with her current content. As I focus on my druid I believe she will have to take the same route. I found MP5 stats alone suck. Spirit has a two fold bonus that can’t be ignored. Though with replenishment as it is, the larger your pool size the bigger the gains back. For those of us still heal spamming that is a huge bonus, for those who do have the luxury of playing the 5 second game, your life is going to change. In many ways I think we are going to have to look at ourselves within the 5 second rule all of the time and forget the playing with the outside as there is little bonus to it.

[Dendrek]

I agree with degrador: gemming for spell power is still preferable just now, but we'll have to see the outcome of the 3.1 regen nerf before hard numbers can be used.

On a side note, Check out my current talent build (sig is an armory link) - it would skew degrador's numbers slightly further in favor of int (Lunar Guidance) - but this is a pure tank healing build with high spell power and allowing room for haste to reach ~1 second gcd after raid buffs. (as that's my only real interest... let the shammies spam chain heal on the raid pls as intended) ;D

I'm curious how you heal with a build like that. It doesn't appear you use Regrowth efficiently/often because you only have 3 points in Improved Regrowth. It appears you like having a powerful NS-HT combo, but if as much as 30% of your HT is overhealing when you use that combo, the two points you have in Empowered Touch are wasted. A 4 minute Tranquility (with 2/2 Improved Tranquility) would be interesting but seems to be somewhat limiting (it requires that you be placed in the tank group) and takes points from other useful talents.

This build appears to be heavily focused around CDs (Nature's Swiftness and Tranquility), and not around direct heals (3/5 Improved Tranquility, 0/3 Living Seed) or HoTs (3/5 Gift of the Earthmother). I'm not sure I would consider this an effective use of talents for a tank healing build. But if it works for you, so be it.

[extsr2001]

I am currently toying with a build kinda of like that. Its not HT based, but does include the 3% haste talent from the Balance tree. To be honest no druid build should not include WG. There are far too many applications for it. However I did want to see the effects of having more initial haste. That being said, in light of the Mana Regen changes and for my personal build. I have a great deal of Spirit and Mp5 combo gear vs haste gear currently on my body. Like the old days before they made OOC regen. Still running about 2600 raid buffed though.

I am happy with it so far, but my gear has less and less haste as I grab pieces with actual mp5 and spirit.

[Zreo]

16 int:

Replenishment regen (assuming you have it 100% of the time):
16*15*0.0025 per second
= 0.6 per second / 3 MP5

lets see..

16 int = 160 mana

160/100*0,25=0,4 per sec

which is 2MP5

Spr: Spellpower increased by 15% of spirit

1.15 * 16 * 0.15

16/100*15= 2.4

how can you have so many flaws in your math... please delete your post before you misslead ppl.

[Pyrinoc]

lets see..

16 int = 160 mana

160/100*0,25=0,4 per sec

which is 2MP5

16/100*15= 2.4

how can you have so many flaws in your math... please delete your post before you misslead ppl.

... Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

1 Int = 15 mana. So, 16 Int = 16 Int * 15 Mana/Int = 240 Mana.
240 * 0.0025 = 0.6 Mana/Sec = 3 MP5.

On the topic of spellpower, the OP was assuming that the resto druid in question had the 15% spirit bonus, which is why the extra 1.15 was in his second equation. Please know what you're talking about before you attack other people.

[kayabey]

so wich calculete or who's matz is totally right ? is treebird right or other mate right ? who can explain it when 3.1 comes we gonna spirit again or SP or Int. gem

[RestoRiven]

Why does that build have empowered touch but not naturalist?

[wambat132]

lets see..

16 int = 160 mana

160/100*0,25=0,4 per sec

which is 2MP5

16/100*15= 2.4

how can you have so many flaws in your math... please delete your post before you misslead ppl.

^
|
------ This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Don't listen to him.
Kind of funny how you try to bash on someone and end up looking like a idiot yourself.
Treebird had it right the first time.

Please delete your post before you mislead ppl.

[Habit]

I'm curious how you heal with a build like that. It doesn't appear you use Regrowth efficiently/often because you only have 3 points in Improved Regrowth. It appears you like having a powerful NS-HT combo, but if as much as 30% of your HT is overhealing when you use that combo, the two points you have in Empowered Touch are wasted. A 4 minute Tranquility (with 2/2 Improved Tranquility) would be interesting but seems to be somewhat limiting (it requires that you be placed in the tank group) and takes points from other useful talents.

This build appears to be heavily focused around CDs (Nature's Swiftness and Tranquility), and not around direct heals (3/5 Improved Tranquility, 0/3 Living Seed) or HoTs (3/5 Gift of the Earthmother). I'm not sure I would consider this an effective use of talents for a tank healing build. But if it works for you, so be it.

Indeed, I don't use regrowth often, but when I do any crit would be unnecessary as I tend to put up regrowth as an extra hot when I know the tank will be taking more dmg than usual, not a reactionary measure - that's what swiftmend is for (and is much better at), followed by a hasted nourish if required - again, faster than regrowth.

Yes, I like having NS-HT strong because the only time I ever use it is if a tank spikes below roughly 25% health (think phase 2 of sarth 3D where tank is taking serious spike dmg), in which case zero of my ns-ht is wasted. In my opinion, if your ns-ht is overhealing then you either have tanks with very low hp or else you're using ns-ht as a general heal which really isn't the point of that combo.

Improved tranquility is a wonderful talent (yes, 90% of the time I'm in the tank group, but even if I'm not it's still good to be able to help out if the raid is taking mass aoe dmg, once you macro it with barkskin) - more specifically because of the reduction in threat than anything else - it means I can typically put my group to a healthy level in a mana efficient way and without worrying about aggroing adds etc. It's oh-shit with a reduced CD and no threat... so points very well spent in my book.

I only have 3/5 of Gift of the Earthmother because with Raid buffs, Celestial Focus + haste from gear, I have a 1 second GCD and therefore more than 3 points are actually a waste.

I don't take living seed currently as this is a tank hot build and does not focus on crits (you'll see I only have ~10% crit), but rather on maximising hots.

So, in summary - if you're curious how I heal with a build like that, the answer is very well - my raid buffed lifebloom stack ticks for ~1400 and rejuv for ~2000.. that combined with a regrowth and a 1.2 second nourish woven into my rotation if required, I have no problems keeping tanks alive... which is what the build is for.

If, on the other hand, what you really meant to ask is "how do you compete on the healing meters with a build like that?" - then the answer is simple: I don't - I'm a tank healer, my job is done once the tank(s) I'm assigned to stay(s) alive, anything else is irrelivant imho.

I appreciate you taking the time to look it over, but unfortunately you seem to have missed the point of the build and I can only presume you didn't look at my gear (or even my sig for a stat summary) before just presuming that GotEM not being maxed was a mistake (and I didn't explain reasons for certain choices before asking for feedback, so I suppose that's my fault, so I do apologise... probably should have created a separate thread too... d'oh ;D).

[Porosity22]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9658

This is the spec I will likely use for 3.1. Right now I'm still debating NG > Revitalize > NP. Or vice versa. But my question about gemming for INT was not based on the assumption that I would be taking Lunar Guidance. I was more or less hoping there would be a discussion of the possibility of INT being viable. I guess the discussion comes down to, has the regen nerf hit hard enough that we need to start looking at how to benefit more from Replenishment for longevity, or continue gemming for spell power.

[Eilt]

I don't take living seed currently as this is a tank hot build and does not focus on crits (you'll see I only have ~10% crit), but rather on maximising hots.

You appeared to have missed this new HoT, it is called Wild Growth, I would look into it. :-*

[Flanky]

For blue -> 16 spirit
For red -> 19 spellpower
for yellow -> 16 int

[Eilt]

For blue -> 16 spirit
For red -> 19 spellpower
for yellow -> 16 int

No, Yes, and No.

If you want to be that blunt you should at least get it right:
For blue -> spellpower/spirit
For red -> 19 spellpower
for yellow -> spellpower/int

[medavid16]

I had to sign up after I read this thread...

I don't have math formulas, but this is what I've done...

I put on some int gear, check mana regen

I put on some spirit gear, check mana regen

I put on some mp5 gear, check mana regen

Based on what I saw, I need an enormous amount of spirit just to keep up actualy MP5 gear... so my recommendation is to do mp5 gems.

I never oom in 25man raids as resto druid. I can usually get through an entire boss encounter without an innervate, but the times I do need it, I use it, never oom. Don't even need to pot.

And I'm by far not the most skilled resto druid either, I face roll FB/rejuvs.

[Degrador]

No, Yes, and No.

If you want to be that blunt you should at least get it right:
For blue -> spellpower/spirit
For red -> 19 spellpower
for yellow -> spellpower/int

Thank you. It honestly pisses me off when people suggest using different pure gems. Unless you've managed some freak of a exact gear matching such that the value of different stats are equal, then ultimately one stat is better than the other. Therefore use pure gems of that stat in its colour slot, and hybrid gems (green / purple / orange) with that stat and some other in the other slots (assuming the socket bonus is actually worth it)...

I had to sign up after I read this thread...

I don't have math formulas, but this is what I've done...

I put on some int gear, check mana regen

I put on some spirit gear, check mana regen

I put on some mp5 gear, check mana regen

Based on what I saw, I need an enormous amount of spirit just to keep up actualy MP5 gear... so my recommendation is to do mp5 gems.

I never oom in 25man raids as resto druid. I can usually get through an entire boss encounter without an innervate, but the times I do need it, I use it, never oom. Don't even need to pot.

And I'm by far not the most skilled resto druid either, I face roll FB/rejuvs.

I'm sorry, but if you haven't done the math, and your 'evidence' is just based on random gear with anecdotal unmeasured observations, when you even admit that you're 'not the most skilled resto druid' and you're using a poor healing technique, then please don't even bother.

Some classes do better with MP5 (eg, pallies). Druids aren't one of them.