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  1. #1

    Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    New patchnote
    Shadow
    * Shadowform now gives the the periodic damage from your Shadow Word: Pain, Devouring Plague, and Vampiric Touch spells the ability to critically hit for 100% increased damage.
    * Mind Melt now also increases the periodic critical strike chance of your Vampiric Touch, Devouring Plague and Shadow Word: Pain spells by 3/6%.

    How will this change the value of crit in comparison to spellpower and haste?

  2. #2

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    I could be wrong but this is actually a nerf to what shadowform previously did.

  3. #3

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Quote Originally Posted by longfep
    I could be wrong but this is actually a nerf to what shadowform previously did.
    It was a nerf when crit extra damage was only 50%. Now it's 100%... hard to tell.

    Say if you have 30% to crit,
    Instead of doing 30% extra damage, you'll have 30% to do 100% extra damage?

  4. #4

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Quote Originally Posted by TehManifest
    How will this change the value of crit in comparison to spellpower and haste?
    Not much.
    Kozma - Staghelm (US)

  5. #5

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    It will probably be like haste became late in tbc. spriests aimed at 1400 spellpwoer and then stacked haste. at that point, haste were beginning to scale better.
    Crit will be the same, although I don't know the numbers yet.

    For me, I'm almost certain this 200% crit damage bonus will mean increased dps compared to live.

  6. #6

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mstone2005
    Well critical strikes do 150% of normal damage. With this talent it should put us at 250% of normal damage. which means if you have 30% chance to crit, you have a 30% chance to do 150% extra damage with those dots.

    800 normal ticks = 1200 normal crit = 2000 crit with this talent.
    Uhhh... no. Normal crits are 150%, this talent increases it a further 50% to 200% from the base damage. 250% would be ridiculous.

  7. #7

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mstone2005
    Well critical strikes do 150% of normal damage. With this talent it should put us at 250% of normal damage. which means if you have 30% chance to crit, you have a 30% chance to do 150% extra damage with those dots.

    800 normal ticks = 1200 normal crit = 2000 crit with this talent.

    ... I'm not even going to respond to this.


    With DoT crits doing 200% damage, this will make it neither a nerf or a buff, in essence. If RNG is perfect (50% crit = exactly half your DoT ticks crit), the damage will turn out the exact same as it was before. If RNG is nice to you, your damage will increase. If RNG isn't nice to you, your damage will decrease.

  8. #8

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Actually, this patch is a small buff. Mind Melt gives our DoTs an extra 2% crit, as it now increases Mind Flay, Mind Sear and Mind Blast by 4% and DoT crits by 6%.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  9. #9

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    to put it as simple as im able to.

    Crits adds 50% dmg

    spec improves crits with 100%

    100% of 50% dmg = 50% dmg

    50% dmg + 50% dmg = 100% dmg

    A crit will deal 100% more dmg compared to a non crit unless the target got resilience
    Behind every great man there is a surprised lady.

  10. #10

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    This will be an increase in damage over live once you factor in increased crit chance from buffs/debuffs and increased crit damage from meta gem. Correct me if I'm wrong but the live version increases damage based on your character pain chance to crit and doesn't take into account buffs/debuffs.

    If base crit chance is 20% then
    Live = 100% chance to increase damage by 20%
    PTR = 20% (plus buffs, debuffs, and talents) chance to increase by 100% (plus meta gem)

    So more like 30% chance to increase damage by 102% (I dont recall what the meta gem is but you get the point)
    Drunk toddlers in a dryer

  11. #11

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon
    Actually, this patch is a small buff. Mind Melt gives our DoTs an extra 2% crit, as it now increases Mind Flay, Mind Sear and Mind Blast by 4% and DoT crits by 6%.

    thats 6% extra crit on dots, the 4% now only affect mind blast sear and flay, not our dots, so we get a 6% dmage buf to our dots overall (and 3% * critchance through the meta)

  12. #12

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Ah, you're right.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  13. #13

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    It's a buff. Metagem increases crit damage by 3%. Mage's imp. scorch didn't account for the old shadowform effect, now it does. There are various small buffs at mind melt. It's most likely buff in range of 5% or so at single target dps.

  14. #14

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Mage's imp. scorch didn't account for the old shadowform effect, now it does.
    I'm pretty sure it does work with the old effect, and if i remember correctly it once got confirmed by a blue post.

  15. #15

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    I'm not sure, but I do remember reading about imp. scorch not giving the dots extra 10% base damage increase. However, extra 6% crit chance on dots + 100% crit bonus outweighs the old effect, which was bugged and not working on all encounters.

  16. #16
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    I wouldn't discard haste entirely.

    I'm still seeing a practical better performance with 10% haste, as it helps make up for user errors, and random latency.

  17. #17

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh
    Dots critting for 200% is mathematically identical to how it is on Live, which would equate to identical theoretical DPS, except that:

    1. The CSD will affect dots now.

    2. Added 6% crit for dots.

    3. DP got a substantial buff.
    And...

    4. Shadow fiend buff

    5. VE duration increased to 5 min


    I'm seeing about 10-12% more damage against a dummy in the new ptr build, but i'm also a tailor and the cloak enchant got a nice buff too.

  18. #18

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Is Shadowcrawl increasing shadowfiend's damage or the damage received by target? 100% dot crits are way to go, if there will be fights containing movement and so on, our damage won't be bad at all.

  19. #19

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Is Shadowcrawl increasing shadowfiend's damage or the damage received by target?
    The Shadowfiend's damage. But currently it's bugged and he doesn't autocast it, so you have to click it.

  20. #20

    Re: Finally, 100% extra crit dmg...

    PTR Dummy DPS: 3200-3400

    Live Dummy DPS 3000-3200

    dunno if this will be enough :/

    Im Tailor and the new backenchant rockz but ptr is also more laggy, should be equal.

    I expect a ~ 240dps boost as a tailor, all non tailer maybe 200dps boost.

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