Feral tanking PTR numbers

[Doompanther]

Hello there,

I've done a few fights in the PTR just to test out feral survivability. Most of this involved just letting Thrym beat the crap out of me.
I used the exact same gear, enchants, gems and macros.

Some info about savage defense:
It does not proc when the lacerate DoT crits.
It does proc when lacerate application crits
It does not protect against magic attacks.
The damage reduction amount rounds down: 1218.6 damage reduced? round it down to 1218.
It does not stack: get a crit, dodge an attack and then get another crit? The buff will just refresh itself.
The icon looks like the frenzied regeneration icon at the moment.
It does stack with the Essence of Grossamer trinket; assuming it does the same for other shields.
There is no cooldown (unless its 1 second.)


These fights were against Thrym and no consumables were used, and only self buffs. All cooldowns were used (SI and FR used at 10k health or below.)
Talents were almost the same, except Feral Charge was traded in for Primal Gore on the PTR.

Live Talents
PTR Talents

Stats:

                 Live:         PTR:      Difference:
Armor:            33,089        27,312      (5777) 
Health:            32,477        30,367      (2110)
Dodge (before DR):      37.67%        37.67%       0
% to Miss (B4 DR):       0.72%        0.72%       0
AP:               4874         4874       0

Fights against Thrym:

Live: 
  Time    Damage   Taken      Dodged  Missed   
(1) 2:12.9   200,455   78,514       38%    6.3%     
(2) 1:42.2   154,701   61,304      25.5%    7.8%
(3) 2:12.9   184,660   63,701       40%    6.2%


3.1:
(1) 3:21.8   284,304   68,665      44%    8%
(2) 3:12.5   297,603   68,092     41.7%   11.5%
(3) 3:00.7   270,777   68,978     35.6%   11.1%

From the fights and from the data given it is my opinion that Blizzard may have reduced our health and armor BUT they may have also increased our avoidance (by changing the DR rate for druids.) Savage Defense is a good ability, I can see it reducing the amount of damage by over 2k or better in Uldaur gear (unbuffed of course.) With the upgraded gear coming out in Uldaur the reduction in health and armor maybe compensated over time. The damage increase to lacerates DoT is very nice, on average it did an extra 6% overall damage.

This or they nerfed Thrym...

Anyway, I don't see the sky falling just yet. In fact I see feral tanks being much better off.

[lushkamaya]

The crit chance for dots is the same as for melee attacks?

[Gilthoniel]

Hm sounds good, maybe the QQ will stop finally ?

[Nightcrowler]

You didn't take into account that on 3.1 we can trade 5/5 furor for 3/5 furor and take 2/2 improved mark to increase our stam/agi/str by 2%

[ReD-EyeD]

It does not proc when the lacerate DoT crits.
It does not protect against magic attacks.

That's just sad.

[Gilthoniel]

Just tested it on the ptr and compared with live, I know its lvl 80 mob but its looking good. Dmg taken after 4 minutes was smaller than on live.

[Elunedra]

maybe someone can test this or give some info about it

i am especialy concerned abnout those dmg shields all over WoW nodays

like:
dmg shield of disp priest
dmg shield of +111 sta trinket
dmg shield of savage defence
dmg shield of legendairy mace

how is this or is this not gona stack up ?

as far as i know the buff do not stack up into 1 big shiled.
i think the boss are "used" in the same sequence as they have been aplied so when we can get a -400 dmg proc of our +111 sta trinket it willl delay our savage defence for the next attack. making us take an aditional 1000dmg on that attack ?

savage defence is a petty strong shield but i wonder if it wil get delayed by lesser shiled effects like the trinket for example

[Jerv]

I was looking forward to seeing how SD would perform now that it was actually implemented on test.

But there seems to be som major bug with my character on test.

Actually went from 33600 armor in bear on live to almost 44k on test.

Casterform was the same. 7095 armor on live, 9701 on test.

All items the same, and specc just a little different, but no talents that should produce this buff.

Kinda wondering if it might be some bug due to dualspecc talents.

[Doompanther]

maybe someone can test this or give some info about it

i am especialy concerned abnout those dmg shields all over WoW nodays

like:
dmg shield of disp priest
dmg shield of +111 sta trinket
dmg shield of savage defence
dmg shield of legendairy mace

how is this or is this not gona stack up ?

as far as i know the buff do not stack up into 1 big shiled.
i think the boss are "used" in the same sequence as they have been aplied so when we can get a -400 dmg proc of our +111 sta trinket it willl delay our savage defence for the next attack. making us take an aditional 1000dmg on that attack ?

savage defence is a petty strong shield but i wonder if it wil get delayed by lesser shiled effects like the trinket for example

I checked out the trinket: Essence of Gossamer and it DOES stack. so if you are absorbing 1400 dmg with SD alone, add +140 to that with the trinket for 1540 absorption. Once I find a priest that wants to do some work with me I'll try out PW:S and see how that's affected. as for the mace... I dunno...

I was looking forward to seeing how SD would perform now that it was actually implemented on test.

But there seems to be som major bug with my character on test.

Actually went from 33600 armor in bear on live to almost 44k on test.

Casterform was the same. 7095 armor on live, 9701 on test.

All items the same, and specc just a little different, but no talents that should produce this buff.

Kinda wondering if it might be some bug due to dualspecc talents.

There are a lot of bugs like this on the PTR. I had similar problems but eventually it worked itself after relogging a few times.

[Jerv]

Well I've relogged quite a few times now, doesn't seem to change at all.

http://img150.imageshack.us/done.php...0709180428.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/done.php...0709180342.jpg


The one with the standard Blizzard UI is the PTR.

[Elunedra]

i heard its a bug that can happent in u transfer while u where in bearform when o logged out

I checked out the trinket: Essence of Gossamer and it DOES stack. so if you are absorbing 1400 dmg with SD alone, add +140 to that with the trinket for 1540 absorption. Once I find a priest that wants to do some work with me I'll try out PW:S and see how that's affected. as for the mace... I dunno...

this seems promoising

[Barbie]

Blizzard's workaround of critshielding bears horrifies me as it seems to be bad class design just to drop bears some bubble mechanic and I'm very concernd about futher impairing AoE tanking.

Imho they should just balance an atp based on crit up to x times stacking -damage buff lasting y seconds instead. And they should finally adjust cooldowns and magical damage on all tanks based on comparable TTL.

But thanx for the numbers.

P.S.
Hope they change your horrible 'crown of thorns' thingy too.

[Ocnarian]

I know it feels like a big nurf to tanking druids, but from what I've seen on PTR it's not that bad. I'm able to do as well as I have tanking wise in the past and savage defense isn't even in yet. The one thing that really bothers me is that blizzard put these nurfs in because they wanted all of the tanks to have the same hp pool, if that's true we should be given the same avoidance as well (LOL DK MAGIC). I think in the end it'll work out from what I've seen we're still capable of tanking anything in ulduar even without savage defense.

[Gilthoniel]

I know it feels like a big nurf to tanking druids, but from what I've seen on PTR it's not that bad. I'm able to do as well as I have tanking wise in the past and savage defense isn't even in yet. The one thing that really bothers me is that blizzard put these nurfs in because they wanted all of the tanks to have the same hp pool, if that's true we should be given the same avoidance as well (LOL DK MAGIC). I think in the end it'll work out from what I've seen we're still capable of tanking anything in ulduar even without savage defense.

Savage defense is already implemented on PTR.

[getefix]

maybe someone can test this or give some info about it

i am especialy concerned abnout those dmg shields all over WoW nodays

like:
dmg shield of disp priest
dmg shield of +111 sta trinket
dmg shield of savage defence
dmg shield of legendairy mace

how is this or is this not gona stack up ?

as far as i know the buff do not stack up into 1 big shiled.
i think the boss are "used" in the same sequence as they have been aplied so when we can get a -400 dmg proc of our +111 sta trinket it willl delay our savage defence for the next attack. making us take an aditional 1000dmg on that attack ?

savage defence is a petty strong shield but i wonder if it wil get delayed by lesser shiled effects like the trinket for example

max damage absorbed by essence of gossamer per attack is 140.
I am curious though how the priorities will work with shields. I'd like for my shield to be the first to be taken as it is the one that is most often refreshed. The priest's should be the first one to go, and if you're using that craptacular trinket it'll get wiped out from pretty much any attack.

[rabbimojo]

max damage absorbed by essence of gossamer per attack is 140.
I am curious though how the priorities will work with shields. I'd like for my shield to be the first to be taken as it is the one that is most often refreshed. The priest's should be the first one to go, and if you're using that craptacular trinket it'll get wiped out from pretty much any attack.

It -would- be nice to find out how shield priority is implemented. It has a lot of consequences. Maybe someone should pester GC about it

[Chicoo]

I killed Thrym The Hope Ender on the test Realm. Solo, Selv buffed.
I took around 114555 Dmg
Healed for 78819
Used every Cooldown when it was Ready.

I can't do that on Live Realms, As the OP said, I think they lowered the DR on Dodge by a chunk, cause i dodged like half of his hits.
And btw, I like the new Bear Block so far.

[Barbie]

Thrym, fine, but what's about multiple targets and magical damgage, uh? (Besides some shield doesn't seem to fit feral-style at all.)

[arel00]

From the fights and from the data given it is my opinion that Blizzard may have reduced our health and armor BUT they may have also increased our avoidance (by changing the DR rate for druids.) Savage Defense is a good ability, I can see it reducing the amount of damage by over 2k or better in Uldaur gear (unbuffed of course.) With the upgraded gear coming out in Uldaur the reduction in health and armor maybe compensated over time. The damage increase to lacerates DoT is very nice, on average it did an extra 6% overall damage.

This or they nerfed Thrym...

Anyway, I don't see the sky falling just yet. In fact I see feral tanks being much better off.

I would just like to quote this.
For all of you that followed the debate these last weeks in this forum:

TOLD YA

Call me childish, but still... I told you.

[Jerv]

Thrym, fine, but what's about multiple targets and magical damgage, uh? (Besides some shield doesn't seem to fit feral-style at all.)

Multiple targets was my main concern as well.
According to my combatlog the same savage defencebuff sometimes absorbes damage from more than one attack.
As far as I can tell this happens when two mobs strike you at the same time, and the buff is activated.

I didn't expect it to absorb magic damage, and it doesn't.


I'm beginning to like SD very well. On single target fights this should actually be a very good buff for us even when considering the reduction in armor, and HP.

I know a lot of you dislike the change, but I'm of the opinion that we're actually gonna get to the other side of this and see that the grass actually is greener this time.

These changes are actually gonna allow us to scale much better, also considering that we now share loot with Rogues.
Rogue need a lot of crit and attackpower, and now even this is a defencive stat for us.