How to Dps ( Moonkin )

[wakerofgods]

CAST LOOOOOTSSS OF WRATHSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Cast moonfire, insect swarm, then cast wrath until eclipse procs, then cast starfire until eclipse is over, then renew your DOTS (as needed, but not during eclipse procs) and spam starfire (or wrath if you are bad at keeping track of the notshown CD) for 14seconds, then start casting wrath until eclipse procs again...

Also, use my spec:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...g&n=Alsk%C3%AF

As for stats go sp/haste/crit or hit first if you're not hit capped.

Also, although haste is an easy thing to spam early on if you are going OOM during boss fights - haste is worth little.

TL;DR = read this, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...61300942&sid=1 it knows everything.

[Ikkatsu]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ea+52&n=Nytrik

Here is my amory.... I am doing around 2.8 on the dummy but I think somthing is wrong I should be doing much more can somone help me with rotation....
ect maybe my gylps can figure out what it is

A couple of things...

You do not have enough haste.
You are pretty much only taking leather gear... bad move. Take as much cloth gear with +haste as you can find.
You are being cheap with your gems. You need to socket Runed Scarlet Rubies for 19 Spell Power.
You are missing 4 piece set bonus from Tier 7.
Once you have all 5 pieces of Tier 7, do Heroic Malygos and replace your Tier 7 legs with the Cloth Legs Wanton Spellcaster... They have a ton of Spellpower, Haste and Hit allowing you to replace your trinkets with Embrace of the Spider and Dragon Soul.

That DPS is fine with your current gear, but as soon as you fix the above you should be on a minimum of 4k.

-EDIT-

I also noticed you do not have shoulder enchant. Get this fixed asap with Sons of Hodir reputation (or getting Inscription). You should also enchant your cloak with +20 Haste. When you get Tier 7 Helm, put in a Chaotic Skyflare Diamond for 21 Crit Rating and 3% Additional Crit Damage.

Also, you might want to think about picking up Jewelcrafting for the Runed Dragon's Eye Gems, very nice and are prismatic so you don't need to get some crappy blue/purple gems for the Meta Requirement.

You should also get a socket put on your Belt...

And get your head enchanted with the Kirin Tor Exalted Enchant.

[Spiritus]

If you proc Eclipse for Starfire, then you need haste not crit.

If you proc Eclipse for Wrath, then you need crit not haste.

Depending on what version of Eclipse you use, decides what gear you go for.

Additional crit is useless once Eclipse procs for Starfire... so its better to get haste to cast more Starfires during the Proc.

Wrooooonnngggggg...

I don't think you meant what you said here. I'm with you that you need more haste for starfire when eclipse procs but I'm against you when you say you don't need crit.

The common misconception on Haste > Crit is that you NEED crit. There is no such thing as having an infinite amount of haste with 0 crit and doing well. You will NOT proc Eclipse at all if you dont' have a decent enough crit. I run at about 23% crit not including passive buffs. With that much crit I am able to proc eclipse within a single rotation. Anything much lower then that and you will have to redo your DoT's and continue the low DPS rotation until the proc happens.

Also, nobody in their right mind would WANT to proc eclipse for anythign but Starfire unless they are on Loatheb. Starfire simply dishes out way to much damage during eclipse for it not to completely overshadow Wrath, even with high crits. I generally have a max crit on wrath right now of 8.5k ... My wrath runs at around 1.2s with a GCD somewhere within 1.25 ... putting 2 crits on top of each other I would be at 3.65s used and 17k damage. Versus Starfire with a proc I'd be at a max of 16k in 2.1ish seconds with the same GCD (negligable). I did 1k less damage with 1.5ish less time. My math is very vague as I'm heading to class but the principle is the same.

[elfant]

How much hatse should I be going for?

[Spiritus]

Yea I generally keep repeating myself on this topic though on threads pertaining to teaching boomkins how to itemize/play. To be quite honest, I was a victim of literally believing the theorycraft posts that said "HASTE IS GREATER THEN CRIT YAY PWNTWTFBBQSAUCEKTHXBYE." So I just like to reiterate, especially when the 3rd or 4th response was just asking to be taken literally.

To answer the question on how much haste you should go for... is a tad tough. I like the way blizzard has redone their mechanics over the years, especially for boomkins, to be very hard to interpret as an individual statistic (which is what I was trying to get at). I kept asking theorycrafting forums for numbers to aim for.

Though you probably already know, and are already rolling your eyes at me repeating it, Hit needs to be capped. My general rule of thumb is to stack hit to 267 and stop. I personally talent into IFF for the passive buff anyways, and 90% of the time I have a shadow priest. The next statistic to look for is spellpower. It is the core of all casting damage. The more spellpower you have, the higher the damage your haste and critical percentage will get you. This does NOT mean it makes your haste and critical percentage more effective. This is where our statistics get a little tricky.

Haste:
% Spell Haste at level 80 = (Haste Rating / 32.79)
New Casting Time = (Base Casting Time)/(1 + (% Spell Haste / 100))

Crit:
Crit Chance % = ((Intellect / 166.6667) + Class Constant) + (Crit Rating / 45.91)

The bolded terms represent the value it takes to recieve 1%.

We look at haste in broad spectrum terms as being > Crit simply because it takes less haste rating then crit rating to gain 1%. The more fine tuned look at these stats correlate their overall effectiveness on your damage.

Haste:
Haste diminishes over time. Just like dodge, their is no way to get 100% haste, nor is their a way to reduce your GCD below 1s (which takes 1600+ haste to do fyi). But for notations sake, lets say your damage from a fight non-haste while casting a 3s spell 100 times was 1. With 1% haste your reducing the cast time to 2.97 and the GCD to 1.49. This means that you gain back .04s per spell (-1 for starting) of "wait" time. This means that after 100 casts I gain 4 seconds back. Enough time for 1.33 casts. An overall damage increase of .013.

Crit:
Crit provides 150% damage normally but can provide more through talents (generally the case). That being said, if you had a 1% crit rating and your non-crit damage from a fight non-crit while castnig a 3s spell 100 times was 1, then you would have a damage increase of .05.

My overall point is that your crit will only get you so far, and your haste will only get you so far, alone. Paired up with real-time procs and buffs, your crit rating is necessary to proc Eclipse in one rotation, while your Haste is necessary to pump through as many starfires during that time as possible. I generally like to hang around 550-600 haste, hit capped (268ish), 1950 spellpower in boomkin self buffed, and 23% crit non-passive self buffed. I am simply looking for spellpower gear at this point.

[elfant]

k Check my gear out nowz anything pecies That I can get to get so more hatse

[Ikkatsu]

Wrooooonnngggggg...

I don't think you meant what you said here. I'm with you that you need more haste for starfire when eclipse procs but I'm against you when you say you don't need crit.

The common misconception on Haste > Crit is that you NEED crit. There is no such thing as having an infinite amount of haste with 0 crit and doing well. You will NOT proc Eclipse at all if you dont' have a decent enough crit. I run at about 23% crit not including passive buffs. With that much crit I am able to proc eclipse within a single rotation. Anything much lower then that and you will have to redo your DoT's and continue the low DPS rotation until the proc happens.

Also, nobody in their right mind would WANT to proc eclipse for anythign but Starfire unless they are on Loatheb. Starfire simply dishes out way to much damage during eclipse for it not to completely overshadow Wrath, even with high crits. I generally have a max crit on wrath right now of 8.5k ... My wrath runs at around 1.2s with a GCD somewhere within 1.25 ... putting 2 crits on top of each other I would be at 3.65s used and 17k damage. Versus Starfire with a proc I'd be at a max of 16k in 2.1ish seconds with the same GCD (negligable). I did 1k less damage with 1.5ish less time. My math is very vague as I'm heading to class but the principle is the same.

Lol... The fact that you stated INFINITE HASTE AND ZERO CRIT means that you are trying to troll my post.

I think anyone would understand that would be retarded and wouldn't take such a spec seriously...

The crit you get with your Tier and 4 Set Bonus is enough... especially with the 30% crit from Eclipse.

Once my Eclipse is running, i think my Starfire has about 60% crit chance... which feels like 95% as i very rarely get a normal hit while Eclipse is running.

Therefore Haste > Crit, faster casts, more damage. The fact that Crit is more expensive than Haste also supports this. I would rather cast 1.5% faster than have an extra 1% crit (which i will hardly notice once Eclipse is up anyway...).

My DPS on Patchwerk fluctuates between 5k DPS and 5.5k DPS, depending on raid setup...

And regarding the Starfire Eclipse being more appropriate... of course it is, i wasn't stating that Wrath was better. But there are changes coming up in 3.1 that may change this (as long as you itemise for it properly, hence i said taking crit over haste).

[Spiritus]

I'm not trolling your post at all. I was just pointing out that the generalized statement of "If your your proc'ing Eclipse for Starfire stack haste" is an allusive device.

On the terms of me stating:

...having an infinite amount of haste with 0 crit and doing well.

I'm pretty sure I added a:

There is no such thing as ...

in front of it, I could be wrong though.

The whole reason I posted that comment in the first place was to prove that:

The common misconception on Haste > Crit is that you NEED crit ... You will NOT proc Eclipse at all if you dont' have a decent enough crit.

Which was more of a clarification then a "rip" on your comment. On a side note, just having the T7-.5 set bonus' won't be enough if your "just stacking haste." If your crit is non-passively below 20% you will have a hard time proc'ing elipse within one rotation. I would generally suggest getting your crit to 25% after the gear matures.

[anyaka21]

To clear up a few misconceptions here. 1st dreamstate becomes better as you have almost exclusively no spirit on your gear, thus probably close to 1k intellect, which you should be trying to do as you will be optimizing your gear.

typical itemization stats to look for are: hit>sp>haste>crit

Granted, regardless of group though, bring enough hit items to cover your bases. Meaning, I don't spec into FF as we raid with a sp. However, I have gear for 10 mans thus I can just do a gear swap and be good to go at full hit cap without taking too much of a hit. I also swap out an offhand depending on if I have a draenai in the group.

What I did, when I started out (ive played boom since LK), look at elitist jerks and they have a thread with wws reports. Then from there looked at their armory pages to find out how good booms are gearing and what pieces they use.

What I found was most in the 5k+ dps and higher though slightly different gear and spec setups, had in the neighborhood of 550-600+ haste. unbuffed about 15-17% crit (thus they didn't gear much at all for crit, but definitely where possible got items with both haste and crit, ie footpads of malygos).

rotation wise: IS,MF, wrath (til eclipse), starfire until about 3 secs from end of cd, then rinse repeat and refreshing dots as needed. Though on dots, eclipse and common sense remain a priority, in other words dont' lose a chance on starfire cast during an eclipse to refresh a dot.


edit note: get treants. for one talent point they do 1k dps. And under the influence of Bl/hero, they do about 1.3k. Thus extremely worth it, esp on dps fights like patch and sarth3d.

[elfant]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ea+52&n=Nytrik


Thanks alot I have went from around 2.8-3.8dps umm somthing I am noticeing is that if I dont get my esclipse to proc somewhere
in the first 15 or so secounds it like My dps stays around 3.4ish and it just kinda doodoo.I also would like some tips on when to reaply dots and stuff like that
Would doing it after the natures thing proc be good since u loose .5 on that cast (WHen esclpise is not procd)???

Also lemme know what u think about my gear I have been replacing some stuff to get up to 500 hatse

[Maximussa]

Hi,

My theory about moonkin dps is that a balance druud is a crit based dps'er.
If u have a look to the top 5 talents;

1. (imp) Moonkin Form
2. Vengeance
3. Eclipse
4. Nature's Grace
5. Starlight Wrath

All the former post are questioning haste over crit. Maybe its true u should go for a bit more haste than crit, just because its easier/cheaper to get atm. But remember, we are walking in kara equal gear for now. This tier7 gear we have is crap anywayz. The scaling/gear will be better later on in the expansion.

But in general i think crit is much more better than haste... why?
Simple, because in most of the posts in this topic we are all talking about how to win extra dps, with casting an extra starfire when the eclipse proc is up. Thats all very nice, but what about the dps loss when not critting... its BIG. Every time u dont crit u lose a lot of dmg and haste. The best haste (nature's grace) u can get is when u crit and keep critting!

So my advice is to dont fully go for one of the stats crit/haste, but balance it out. In this point of the game prefer haste a bit over crit, but with the upcoming tiers switch priority more to crit than haste. And claim focus magic from the mages ;p

grtz. Maximussa
bb eu

[Ikkatsu]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ea+52&n=Nytrik


Thanks alot I have went from around 2.8-3.8dps umm somthing I am noticeing is that if I dont get my esclipse to proc somewhere
in the first 15 or so secounds it like My dps stays around 3.4ish and it just kinda doodoo.

Unfortunately, this is what happens to all of us.

The fact that its based on RNG is a killer.

Nothing you can do about it i'm afraid apart from sacrifice some haste for crit.

[Maximussa]

ok I must admit I didn't really test dpsing with a fully haste geared boomkin yet, only have arround 330 atm and need to get my hands on some nice cloth items. Anywayz it was just a bit of bringing up the point for the dps u lose when u dont crit, didn't made the real calculations... I didn't mention in my former post but ofc are hit and spelpower main priority to go for and I defo see the point u make there Medium9 and gonna test it out, tx for the comment

[anyaka21]

You have just posted the misconception that makes many moonkins perform way below their potential - since TBC.

The fact that we have so many procs off crits does mean that we need some, but it still is far from being the stat to stack in every scenario so far. How our talents look is understandably misleading for everyone who didn't do, or read and understand the theorycrafting made by quite some ppl by now.

There also is no need to balance crit and haste when chosing gear. The crit that comes along anyway is always enough. I didn't manage to go below ~16% crit in casterform unbuffed even with taking haste over crit, and that, in a raiding context, is enough. More crit on gear will come at a higher price than hit/SP/haste in terms of DPS-return. Don't evert start things like taking 1:1 haste and crit gems. Get SP/haste for yellow, nothing else (if hitcapped). Ever.

It is perfectly possible that an item with more crit and less haste than another is better overall, but this is NOT because of more crit! Not every haste-item is per se better than any crit-item, that is not what ppl are telling you. But in a point-by-point comparison of DPS-return haste always wins.

And to add to your points. If crit were an overriding factor we would see this reflected in WWS and Wowmeteronline as top dps'ers.

All stats will also grow when 3.1 and ulduar come out. This will mean it will take less items to get hit capped. And chances are insteadof 600haste, we'll be looking at 750. Instead of getting around 17% crit, we'll be looking at 20% crit. And 2200sp will probably be around 2500.

which will probably take us to 6-7.5k dps.

[ninor]

[snip long and slightly pretentious post]

Hit cap is not 267, nor 268ish. It's quite precisely 262.32, which means anything above 263 is a waste of points.

Both crit and hastes value diminish, but the main fact is still that crit is additive from all sources, while haste is multiplicative. This is another reason why we get more from haste than crit. Making up practically impossible cases to argue a point kind of takes any discussion to lala land.

[Deleted]

Guide to "How to Dps ( Moonkin )"

We (moonkins) are obviously meant to use the following rotation:

Wrath -> wait for Gcd -> Wrath -> wait for Gcd - > repeat

/sarcasm off

[Ikkatsu]

Guide to "How to Dps ( Moonkin )"

We (moonkins) are obviously meant to use the following rotation:

Wrath -> wait for Gcd -> Wrath -> wait for Gcd - > repeat

/sarcasm off

I actually find it shocking how little Blizzard know about their own classes.

The gear they provide Moonkins is so terribad that the only rotation they think is viable is what you have just posted.

Give me haste instead of crit, or make Wrath worth while!

[Iriish]

You can Have to much haste for Eclipse spec though Like with Embrace of the spider trinket and talents and the 520 haste I have Atm Whenever I use wrath I have to wait on GCD if I crit and the trinket is going which for me it procs Alot.

And my crit didn't suffer to get the Haste so I also crit alot, which doesn't help.
So also when you get to a point maybe it's better to go to MF, SFx5 rinse repeat, Vs the Eclipse Build.

The Eclipse Build is Great until you get to a certain point with haste but Atm all I have to do is crit with Wrath and I am waiting on a GCD, which is costing me secs off dps which is never good.

this is just IMO say what you will

[elfant]

i cant say I understand what ur talking about -_-

[hyacinthe]

Why do sites like maxdps say that the order of priority is hit>haste>spellpower>crit? They recommend gemming for haste above spellpower. (Well, hit is unspoken there. I've read it elsewhere as well, but can't think of any sites off the top of my head. Thought I saw it at Elitist Jerks, too.)

I usually play resto, so boomkin is my first dps experience at 80, but my guild is getting heal heavy. We have a resident boomkin who does excellent dps and was horrified when I told him I'd been reading that stats were prioritized as I said above.