1. #1

    3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Hey there

    Haven't found this yet, so I take the easy way and just ask you:

    Does anybody of you - playing on the test server - know how Meditation and Holy Concentration will work together?

    What I'd like to know is: Will these effects stack?

    Because if they stack I will have always 100 % manareg infight, if they don't, that would be somehow stupid, wouldn't it? (but it would be a blizzard solution for making Meditation less important)

    Thank you in advance

  2. #2

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    The new Holy Concentration works on spirit-based mana regen, and basically adds 50% to your spirit while the buff is up (for mana regen purposes).
    It does not work on gains from pure MP5 gear, nor other incomes like replenishment, shadowfiend, etc.

    If you do not have meditation, spirit will give you absolutely nothing inside the FSR. So, yes, these will stack. But no, you will not have 100% FSR regen.

    Assume you have 600 spiritbased manaregen OOFSR, and 300 FSR (note, this is not the numbers on your character sheet, this is the benefit from spirit).
    Holy Concentration will add 50% to this regen. That means 900 manaregen OOFSR and 450 FSR while the buff is up. But not 900 FSR.

    You can argue that if you look at the FSR numbers alone, holy concentration is worth exactly half the value of Meditation. In this case, meditation is worth 300 MP5, and holy concentration is worth 150 MP5. Assuming the buff has a 100% uptime. I'm not sure if it will.


    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  3. #3

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Thanks, that makes it much more clear for me!

    And anyway, I have read the talent wrongly, thougt it will proc also with CoH and PoM... then it would have been 100 % up...

  4. #4

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Surge of light also work against Holy Conc.
    So i guess the uptime is less then i thought.
    They may change duration to 10s.

  5. #5

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Either way, Holy will have some mana issues in 3.1.

    OOFSR Spirit is being nerfed by 40%.
    The loss of clearcasting will hurt a lot, as those free heals make up for a whole lot of mana saved, plus the free OOFSR time it brings.
    The loss of serendipity - while it feels good to no longer reward overhealing - will also hurt a whole lot.

    A druid on the official forums put it best (ad-libbed as I can't find the original post):

    "Holy priests are mana-inefficient healers with expensive spells. By simply spamming any heals, a holy priest will run out of mana very very fast. They counter this by aiming to overheal; as long as any single target heal overheals, Serendipity will transform the cast from a horribly mana-inefficient heal into a decent but not extremely efficient heal. By exploiting serendipity, Holy Priests will still run OOM, but not in less than two minutes.

    For longevity, Holy Priests survive by doing "FSR dancing", which is basically taking a second here and a second there outside of the five second rule. Over time, this will make up for a whole lot of mana. They either do this deliberately by simply halting the flow of heals, or accidentially by proccing clearcasting. Deliberate FSR breaks are dangerous, as this puts people at risk of dying and blatantly labels the holy priest as a class best replaced by a more stable healer, and thus is often not something a priest do unless the fight has a natural break in it. This leaves clearcasting as the primary means of getting outside the FSR.

    3.1 significantly lowers the benefit a holypriest gains from getting out of the five second rule through the spirit nerf. The patch also removes their primary ability to do FSR dancing by removing clearcasting. It also removes their free heals by the same change. And it removes their ability to transform the horribly inefficient heals into mildly efficient ones. In return for all this they get an ability which gives ~150 MP5. But this is only triggered by casting the aforementioned horribly inefficient heals. "
    There was a lot more to that post, but that's the gist of it. I'm personally very worried about my regen in 3.1.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  6. #6

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    damn, now I actually have to bring mana-pots and pull the shadowfiend from my spellbook...

    No but seriously...I think the time is over were you could literally forget abount your mana but I wouldn´t count out priests as efficient healers just yet.
    With the upcoming gear upgrades and more classes having replemishment this nerf was bound to happen and not doing so would have ruined the game in my opinion. Sure, easier healing is better but personally I like a challenge and rethinking your gear gives the game some new life. The way things were right now, socketing anything other then 19spellpwr would have been a waste because what more then NOT going OOM could have been possible?

    Eventhough I might be hated, this is a well thought out balance since with 2-3 tiers of new equip to go, what could you improve other then spellpwr and haste?

  7. #7

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Personal pet theorycrafting project of mine right now is how it would work to go 17 prts into shadow for improved shadowfiend instead of meditation. It's not really working out though :P
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  8. #8

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosaes
    damn, now I actually have to bring mana-pots and pull the shadowfiend from my spellbook...

    No but seriously...I think the time is over were you could literally forget abount your mana but I wouldn´t count out priests as efficient healers just yet.
    With the upcoming gear upgrades and more classes having replemishment this nerf was bound to happen and not doing so would have ruined the game in my opinion. Sure, easier healing is better but personally I like a challenge and rethinking your gear gives the game some new life. The way things were right now, socketing anything other then 19spellpwr would have been a waste because what more then NOT going OOM could have been possible?

    Eventhough I might be hated, this is a well thought out balance since with 2-3 tiers of new equip to go, what could you improve other then spellpwr and haste?
    They are still busy with the mana regen of the holy tree, if they need to be buffed again they will, and priests while in tbc always had to think of there mana pots and fiend when raiding end game.. so not sure how you can say in the days where you could litrally forget about your mana hmm maybe vanilla a little but still had to chug on those pots on the 2min interval.

    I have tested Holy on the PTR and for the 5SR and the OO5SR its a big nerf but it rightly deserved it as you should not have to stop healing(Very Bad Idea) to regen mana efficiently in other words its a broken way to play your priest relying on the OO5SR which Blizzard should have solved when they stopped the chugging of pots and relying on your uneducated pet to get you some mana.

    I would like them to at least buff the effect of spirit a little more for priests as its a core stat in wotlk.
    Being the underdog in the ways of how we regen mana un-efficiently compared to our un-efficient spells kinda tips the boat.

    Blizzard gave us more ways now to go oom and still not correcting the amount of mana our spells costs not to how much we use it but how vital it is to keep everyone alive. In the lines of " Yes your a raid healer but only 30% (overstatement) of the fight cause your oom now go sit in the corner as the other healers rocks your socks"

    Im confident in blizzard to change it or improve the way we regen our mana. Maybe through costs or maybe through a new talent that introduces a more efficent gain of mana (Without having to Overheal again)


  9. #9

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Blessing of Wisdom & Mana Spring Totem change

    We are making a change to these spells so that their benefits are exclusive in patch 3.1.0. The buffs will be equivalent, but will no longer stack. Mana Spring will affect the entire raid instead of just the shaman’s party. We felt that both paladins and shamans brought too many unique buffs to a group. Additionally, we have been trying to tone down mana regeneration in large groups, and were concerned raids would feel the need to stack paladins or especially shaman to have enough Mana Spring totems. We have also been trying to get more benefits out of the party and into the raid, and Mana Spring previously was still a party only buff. With this change, if there is only one paladin, he or she can bring Blessing of Kings while the shaman offers Mana Spring. If there are two paladins and the second offers Blessing of Wisdom, then the shaman can offer healing or cleansing with their water totem instead.
    In other words:
    Mana Spring totem is now raidwide.
    Blessing of Wisdom and Mana Spring Totem no longer stacks.

    There goes another hundred MP5 out the window for all healers. It's to the point where I'm actually going to start missing Hymn of Hopelessness now.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  10. #10

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    so what should we stack now? i as a holy priest have been stacking alot of spell power beacuse the fights are really short and i dont go oom anyway so bigger heals whas my goal.

    But i mean i will go oom.. and that is fast in 3.1.

    so whats the best mana reg for priest now? stack spirit or pure mp5? beacuse i guess blizz wants us to stack mana reg now


  11. #11

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    I would stack Spirit over Mp5.   Spirit still increases our Spell power as a holy priest as well as giving us more mana regen outside of combat that actually increases the effect of Holy Concentration.  Right now I'll have about 639 mp5 from spirit after taking a -40% loss.  50% of that is 319.5mp5.  I'd still take our old talent over it, but stacking mp5 I don't think will compare in the long run.  
    Science started out as a form of Magic.
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  12. #12

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Spirit is still the fastest way to push up Meditation/Holy Concentration, just that Int gives you Replenishment, Arcane Torrent (if applicable) and mana tide, as well as crit to keep Holy Concentration up more.

    I wouldn't be gemming mp5 over spirit after the patch, not as Holy.
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  13. #13

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Obviously this is all to get us to use Hymn of Hope now that they have put it back in the game.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  14. #14

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosaes
    damn, now I actually have to bring mana-pots and pull the shadowfiend from my spellbook...

    No but seriously...I think the time is over were you could literally forget abount your mana but I wouldn´t count out priests as efficient healers just yet.
    With the upcoming gear upgrades and more classes having replemishment this nerf was bound to happen and not doing so would have ruined the game in my opinion. Sure, easier healing is better but personally I like a challenge and rethinking your gear gives the game some new life. The way things were right now, socketing anything other then 19spellpwr would have been a waste because what more then NOT going OOM could have been possible?

    Eventhough I might be hated, this is a well thought out balance since with 2-3 tiers of new equip to go, what could you improve other then spellpwr and haste?
    Hated?!

    No, good post with good points, at the current state we dont have mana issues and I agree this nerf will make our class more interesting, I also agree with another poster that Blizz should buff spirit for us as it is a main stat on our gear, I guess we will see soon enough with the patch.
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  15. #15
    altruistic
    Guest

    Re: 3.1: Meditation and Holy Concentration

    I think regen definitely needed to be nerfed a little bit but I'm worried they are going a bit overboard (Holy Paladin excluded).

    I don't want to ruffle anyones feathers but I believe healing is the hardest role to do well in raiding situations and Blizzard seems convinced it should be made harder. Arguably there is no role that is hard to play with this current batch of raids but when the poop really hits the fan in harder instances like it did in Sunwell, being a tiny bit off your game at any moment as a healer lead to a fast wipe. Tanks and dps had similar pressure on themselves at times but those moments when being off your game for only a second can wipe a raid were much fewer and further between for them.

    So why the focus on making a healers role that much harder than a rotation spammer?

    The only thing in the game that's actually a challenge right now is 10 man 3 drakes and I already border on the brink of OOM when it gets heavy on that fight as it is. With these incoming changes I worry I wont be able to manage but I guess I'll have to wait and see.

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