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  1. #21

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by guntierhaas
    apparently i the cat above me thinks i am a bad even though he does not know me and has never seen me play.

    thanks for being judgmental, its people like you that make the world a callus place.

    and also, no i don't get carried, i generally sit on the top of the chart. I figure someone like the person who doubts me will just say i top charts because the rest are bads, but hey, the boss dies every time and people are still alive, so i figure i do my job well.

    wtb more peps calling me a nub please. ty in advance.

    -guntierhaas

    You are a nub.

    Had to get that out of the way.

    On to the topic, FoL spam is effectively dead. No arguement about it, your HPS is nowhere near that of your counterpart healers. That and FoL scales horridly.

    Int/crit/Spellpower/haste/MP5 is the order of buisness nowadays, anyone who says different doesn't know how to play their class effectively.

    /thread


    PS: To the people still saying "FoL spam works!!!oneone!!" You ARE being carried. 2.5-3k HPS =/= 5-6k+ that you SHOULD be doing.

    Take the EJ link and give it a gander. You'll learn alot. Trust me.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire
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    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by YouMadMan
    To the op the post above me is exactly the one you should ignore. Because they top the meter in ''their guild'' So they say, they are using the best way. Sadly its not how it works. Just go to the Elitistjerks link. The mmo-champion forum is often filled with bads and ppl like that usualy do not get permision to even post on elitistjerks.

    Think about it this way are you gona listen to a random paladin about what he does in his guild or to the ones that are in guilds that been doing world first since vanilla wow and theorycrafting since then. Think about it 2 sec then click the link.
    Troll

    To the OP: It's up to you on how you want to play, as you said, your style that you play is the same as mine and guntierhaas'. It works as it should and fills the roll you were meant to play. There is no reason to spam Holy Light over and over when you can have insane crit (as seen by guntierhaas) on flash of light and with the proper gear you can easily out heal and keep mana efficiency at its height. The only logical time to spam Holy Light is under times when you tank/OT are taking heavy damage or when you know you'll crit more than not and are using Divine Plea. Otherwise, use FoL/Holy Shock/Judgement of Light

  3. #23

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitschris
    Troll

    To the OP: It's up to you on how you want to play, as you said, your style that you play is the same as mine and guntierhaas'. It works as it should and fills the roll you were meant to play. There is no reason to spam Holy Light over and over when you can have insane crit (as seen by guntierhaas) on flash of light and with the proper gear you can easily out heal and keep mana efficiency at its height. The only logical time to spam Holy Light is under times when you tank/OT are taking heavy damage or when you know you'll crit more than not and are using Divine Plea. Otherwise, use FoL/Holy Shock/Judgement of Light
    Another stupid that thinks holy light spam does not crit and oom keep em coming guys. We are gona take the words of random bads over elitistjerks YEAHHHH RIGHT. Im done with the stupids here the op probably read EJ anyway and figured it out. You can keep sucking in your bad guild or sucking in the guild carrying your ass in the easy nerfed wotlk content. You know if all dps only did 3000 dps you could pass all the content, it doesent mean you cant improved it. Do the same thing with your healing and improve it, if you dont want to its fine be stuck under 4000 hps.

  4. #24

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Both of you just settle down lol. Both of you are making good points. My gear is far from great but i rarely see a fight where i will go OOM i sit just over 26k raid buffed and i will use BOTH FoL and HL on boss fights and trash. In a 10 man i will get smashed by a good druid everytime cos of hots so all i end up doing is FoL even on boss fights as there is rarely a time someone will take big spikes and the only time i would use HL is if im solo healing tanks.

    H is different damage spikes on tanks that FoL just won't cut it no matter how much you spam it with 5-6k crits thats when i will find msyelf HL spamming if you have a ret pally or spriest or shaman in the group you will find you won't oom unless your very unlucky with the RNG and your crits. 2 healing thad with nly 19 ppl in the raid i still did not drop below 75% mana on the fight.
    I will not say FoL is dead but its not my go to spell anymore. As many ppl have said go read the thread at Elitistjerks and make up your on mind about the class and the best way to play it.

  5. #25

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Twoshoes
    Both of you just settle down lol. Both of you are making good points. My gear is far from great but i rarely see a fight where i will go OOM i sit just over 26k raid buffed and i will use BOTH FoL and HL on boss fights and trash. In a 10 man i will get smashed by a good druid everytime cos of hots so all i end up doing is FoL even on boss fights as there is rarely a time someone will take big spikes and the only time i would use HL is if im solo healing tanks.

    H is different damage spikes on tanks that FoL just won't cut it no matter how much you spam it with 5-6k crits thats when i will find msyelf HL spamming if you have a ret pally or spriest or shaman in the group you will find you won't oom unless your very unlucky with the RNG and your crits. 2 healing thad with nly 19 ppl in the raid i still did not drop below 75% mana on the fight.
    I will not say FoL is dead but its not my go to spell anymore. As many ppl have said go read the thread at Elitistjerks and make up your on mind about the class and the best way to play it.
    That's because in 10 mans there generally isn't enough damage going around for easy content. If you're 2 healing Naxx without replenishment FoL Spam becomes a bit more attractive.

    And he didn't say go to EJ and make up your own mind about the best way to play it, the fact is Holy Light is better and won't run you oom anymore.

    To the guy doing 3drake Sartharion, if you're only job is to heal the main tank then yea FoL does usually keep that tank up alone, but the fact is if you were using Holy Light you could heal him and the raid and do yet more healing still without going oom.

  6. #26

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    What this all boils down to is reactive healing
    Although Holy Light is generally much better than Flash, there are times (Noth and some easy trash) where there just isn't enough healing flying around to bother using anything more than flash
    Although in my guild we get around this by having 1 out of 2 healers go AFK or DPS for that time, makes it much more fun and gives the damage to do 4-5k HPS rather than 2-3k
    In 25 man if you can get away with using Flash spam everywhere, then you should talk with your GM/RL about lessening your healers, you'll enjoy it much more

  7. #27

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Xs
    What this all boils down to is reactive healing
    Although Holy Light is generally much better than Flash, there are times (Noth and some easy trash) where there just isn't enough healing flying around to bother using anything more than flash
    Although in my guild we get around this by having 1 out of 2 healers go AFK or DPS for that time, makes it much more fun and gives the damage to do 4-5k HPS rather than 2-3k
    In 25 man if you can get away with using Flash spam everywhere, then you should talk with your GM/RL about lessening your healers, you'll enjoy it much more
    lol good point about lessing the healers, the flash of light guy is prob running 7 heals in a raid

  8. #28

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Peladin
    Now I'm not new to healing as a pally but I'm used to tbc healing where the fol spam was key with hl in those oh shit moments. I have been looking at forums lately and seeing that alot of pallys can do a hl spam for quite a while... I'm geared in 10 man gear full epics but I seem to have problems lasting very long with a hl spam... even when I pace myself I tend to oom quickly.

    I was wondering if I should be using divine plea every cd even w/ the 50% healing penalty or if I should be gearing more tward mp5 gear witch I have been taking if necesary(sorry for shit spelling)
    So my 2c is really that FL spam isnt dead, its just a lot less "the way to play" - FL is still the spell to use for keeping your party (rauid) nicely topped up while the damage is low, maybe with a hl on the tank now and then. - However, the mandatory HL glyph has made for much more relaxed, timed, reactive pally healing than before - You can think through where to put your HL's for best effect without spamming them in most fights, and then FL will not be that attractive to spam, except for the occasional topup between HLs ... Smart use of BoL on the tank or yourself or some other party member taking heavy dmg will also buy you time ...

    Now, some people here seems to think that if you have time to use FL or i.e. not spam HL you arent pulling your weight, or your raid sucks because you brought too many healers - but unless you are the raid leader i dont see how this is your responsibility or even concern. - You are dealt a role to play in your group/raid, and have to fill that role - if you are low on healers, or are healing a tank with huge incoming hits, you have to spam HL much more ofc, but typically you will in those situations also have much greater regen - at least in a raid, so mostly you wont have to worry about it in the current content.

    About Divine plea - I tend to still hit it every time my mana dips below 80% or so, but it has become more situational - unless youre completely oom it wouldnt be the best time to hit it if you anticipate the tank taking some huge spikes in the next seconds ofcourse, - just be mindful of when you use it and think ahead the time its up before hitting it - great times to use it is when you have to move or there are short breaks (like vortex on maly - just an example) ...

  9. #29

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by DTJ

    PS: To the people still saying "FoL spam works!!!oneone!!" You ARE being carried. 2.5-3k HPS =/= 5-6k+ that you SHOULD be doing.
    Just ask your GM to replace you for a shadow priest or ret pally, they will heal the same as you and will dps.

    Doesn't make any sense "I could heal more but I do like to heal like a baby, so we are going to slow your raid dps for this reason."
    If your raid isn't taking enough damage for your heals to heal, just stop bringing heals, you can heal naxx 25man with 3 decent healers + replenish. It will make it faster and will make it enjoyable again (for healers)

  10. #30

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    With Holy Light being spammable for the entire duration of any of the fights currently in game with a ridiculously low cast time (with Light's grace and JoTP I'm at 1.48 seconds, .74 with infusion of light), there is no reason to spam FoL. If you're gearing for the proper stats (int/haste/crit/sp), using divine illumination wisely (I usually pop it once I hit 50% mana, HL spam brings me back up to full), You shouldn't need to be using Plea on CD either (only fight I use it on is 10 man 3d sarth and that's after the 3rd drake is dead). The guy who's claiming he's never beaten CoH priests in aoe healing fights proves how weak FoL spam is in saying this, as a holy Pally shouldn't lose out in healing to... well, anybody currently. If they are, as already stated, they're bringing too many healers. Holy Pally's effective healing is greatly improved with fewer healers in the raid.
    Quelana - Blood Furnace

  11. #31

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitschris
    Don't listen to me? That's hilarious. Honestly you can read my armory all you want and you'll see that I've never done Naxx 25 or 10, that is, I havn't beat Saph or KT because I just hit 80 a week ago. I've completed all four wings on Heroic Naxx. And I've raided on both heroic and normal on my DK as well. I know the fights etc etc blah blah. Believe what you want but Flash of Light "spam" as you call it, still effectively works. Go ahead and spam holy light and go OOM before everyone else. I'll keep doing my job effectively, and efficiently, and without the need of a "guide" to tell me how to play.

    Real players learn their class on their own, not with some guide to tell you how you should play.
    No. Real players do everything in their power to be the best they can. And that includes sharing information with others and learning from other's experiences. How could you purposely handicap yourself and say that's the "real" way to do it? It's not the real way. It's the ignorant way.

    Again I ask how you intend to keep up a 40k tank with 4k heals. It's just not possible. HL spam is much more powerful and, with Int stacking fully capable of being maintained through the duration of any fight. I know. I've done it. Have you?

    Check my Armory. I've done every fight in the game. Hard modes, 10-man, 25-man, everything. I read all the material I can get my hands on and stay abreast of any changes that come to my class. I speak from experience. You, on the other hand, have done five heroics (all in the past week) and failed at completing a Naxx 25 run yesterday. You admitted to recently dinging 80. I don't care what you've supposedly done on this all-powerful alt that you don't even bother to include in your signature and somehow is more advanced than your main. It sounds like a load of BS to me, but even if it's not, it doesn't matter. Playing a DK in no way qualifies you to speak on the abilities of a Holy Pally.

    In the crap Heroic 5-man content you're clearing and with the crap gear you have, FoL spam is viable. But "real" players doing "real" content know that it doesn't last.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  12. #32

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitschris
    Don't listen to me? That's hilarious. Honestly you can read my armory all you want and you'll see that I've never done Naxx 25 or 10, that is, I havn't beat Saph or KT because I just hit 80 a week ago. I've completed all four wings on Heroic Naxx. And I've raided on both heroic and normal on my DK as well. I know the fights etc etc blah blah. Believe what you want but Flash of Light "spam" as you call it, still effectively works. Go ahead and spam holy light and go OOM before everyone else. I'll keep doing my job effectively, and efficiently, and without the need of a "guide" to tell me how to play.

    Real players learn their class on their own, not with some guide to tell you how you should play.
    OMG I get it now! He's giving bad advice on purpose to tell the OP to learn to play on his own and not take advice from other people! Not sure if the irony is lost on him that he's come to post in a forum to do so...
    Quelana - Blood Furnace

  13. #33

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Xs
    Although Holy Light is generally much better than Flash, there are times (Noth and some easy trash) where there just isn't enough healing flying around to bother using anything more than flash
    If there's not much damage being taken at all, then FoL is fine. But if there's a little damage being taken by everyone, the splash from HL is amazing. 1.5-2k heals to 5 people? Yes please. There are times when I'll put a 15k HL on someone that only has 4k worth of damage because he's standing in a group of a bunch of people in the same case. That's 11.5k worth of effective healing (4k + 1.5k on 5 other people) in one cooldown. You'd have to cast three FoLs to get that much healing done in that situation.

    I top meters in my guild. If I'm not on top, I'm second by a close margin. Our Priest and I pass the top spot back and forth. It really doesn't matter what fight though. Even raid damage fights. CoH healing has nothing on HL glyph + JoL. There's no excuse for a Holy Pally to be outside of the top three on any fight and many fights favor us for the top spot from the get go. Saph, Thaddius, Patchwerk, Instructor... If you're not number one by a wide margin - you're doing it wrong.

    If you're getting a healing assignment, then keep your assignment up and you're doing fine. However, the only two fights like this that I can think of are 4H and 3D Sarth. But even then you should always try to maximize your potential. Just because you're assigned to the MT doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get your gear and skills to a place where you can help heal the OT too.

    And believe me when I say my other healers are good. We'd not keep them around if they weren't. Check out my achievements and you'll see server firsts and hard mode completions all over the place. We were the top guild on our old server and will be working to be the top guild on our new server too (though the competition definitely looks more stiff with all the other top guilds that took advantage of the free transfers to move to a lag free realm).
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  14. #34

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    im glad how this thread turned into a name calling fest. cool.

    my achievements do not accurately portray my skill in this game as i dinged 70 last august. So yea i didn't kill illy pre-3.0, that is because i would have had about 2.5 months to go from welfare epics to t6. Just cause i haven't been playing forever does not make me a poor player, it just means i hadn't established myself enough on my server to find a guild (which is hard to do when you are rolling in merc gear and quest items) that matched my skill levels. I have found in my short playing time that my tactic of healing works. I am one of the top holy pallies on my server, and a large portion of my healing is fol, second place being HL. No i haven't been playing since vanilla, but wasn't a previous post telling me i should top living in the past? Vanilla and BC is dead, maybe you should start looking towards whats going on now. FOL works, HL works. Surely you don't need EJ to tell you what to do when the numbers speak for them self.


    ps, i have found that if i do some yoga before i post, my text tends to be less derogatory and more constructive, try it sometime all you who feel compelled to spread hate.

    much love peeps.



    -guntier

  15. #35

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    With all due respect, I don't see how people can say FoL as your main spell 'works'. How do you possibly effectively keep up a 40k tank with 4k FoLs?
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  16. #36

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by guntierhaas
    it just means i hadn't established myself enough on my server to find a guild (which is hard to do when you are rolling in merc gear and quest items) that matched my skill levels.

    I am one of the top holy pallies on my server, and a large portion of my healing is fol, second place being HL.
    Did anyone find this as funny as I did. I don't see how you could even qualify to be a top holy paladin when you can't even get in a decent top end guild...

    So far your attempts at trying to act cool have turned into a massive fail fest.

  17. #37

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest
    With all due respect, I don't see how people can say FoL as your main spell 'works'. How do you possibly effectively keep up a 40k tank with 4k FoLs?
    Im pretty sure in raid buffs i have seen plenty of 7k crits and 5k norm plus putting shock in between which heals for about 10k its very easy.

  18. #38

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtopally
    Im pretty sure in raid buffs i have seen plenty of 7k crits and 5k norm plus putting shock in between which heals for about 10k its very easy.
    I'm positive you're wrong.

    Here's a FoL spammer that ran a guild hosted PUG with us awhile back. This is during KT.

    http://www.wuthapn.com/stats25/sws-k...000bd7f57.html

    He cast 160 FoLs. His average hit was 3995. His average crit was 5709. Can you have a 7k FoL crit? Yup. Will it happen often? No. You have to look at the average case. Not the best case scenario.

    Note that this player got blown out of the water by two Priests and a Druid. The exact same complaint that a lot of FoL spammers have ("Druids and Priests always beat me!").

    5k FoLs are pretty near to impossible in current content. Here's an ej post where someone did the math as to what would be needed to get 5k FoLs. He was able to get it, but the loss to all his other stats was absurd (basically SP stacking to the abandonment of everything else).

    Saying that Shock hits for 10k is absolutely outlandish. It hits slightly better than FoL. The inflated numbers you gave to FoL are more apt for Shock. 5k average hit 7k average crit.

    Here's mine from KT (different fight).

    http://www.wuthapn.com/stats25/sws-k...00288e290.html

    HL average hit 9813. Average crit 15132. I got beat out by a single Priest. He heals during P1 and normally I don't bother. On top of that, I was dead for the last 30 seconds of the fight because our Pally CL came over and Mana Detonated on me for lulz. :P

    Again, I ask you how you expect to keep up a 40k tank with 4k heals.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  19. #39

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest
    Again, I ask you how you expect to keep up a 40k tank with 4k heals.
    Put a FoL spammer on the MT during 3 drake Sarth, We'll see if they think it's viable after a 35k breath followed by a melee hit

    This of course assumes the hilarious notion that a guild capable of downing 3D sarth would entertain such a plan...
    Quelana - Blood Furnace

  20. #40

    Re: a question for holy pallys

    L2 deadly glad's libram. My FOL hits 4k without any sort of buff. When you add full raids onto that, they start getting pretty mighty. 2700sp when fully buffed plus the 200 something from deadly glads libram, that is almost a 3k sp fol. They drop good numbers. How do i except to keep a tank up? easy, i press keybind two, fol casts, rinse, repeat.

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