(3.1) 51/0/20 Test Results

[Mothhive]

[Update] Have tested out a new 51/0/20 spec for the latest patch. Click here for results. Previous build results have been left below for those who are curious.

Thought I'd post some recount data and some observations on a test I did on the PTR of a spec I was thinking about using when the patch hits.

Spec and glyphs used: 51/02/18

The Glyphs aren't ideal, I'd probably pick up the Deathcoil and DRW ones over DnD and Ghoul, but I haven't been able to get my hands on them yet. Also, I don't normally spec bloodworms as I haven't really found them helpful when raiding, but I thought I'd try them out in this test as I was curious how much DPS they would add. The points they replaced were originally in Improved Blood Presence and Vampiric Blood, and while they don't add anything to your DPS, they do help survivability. Anyway, was just curious, enough waffling, on with the results. ;D

This test was conducted on the Boss dummy in Ebon Hold for 20 minutes straight. My ghoul and I are only buffed with Horn of Winter and there are no debuffs on the boss apart from the ones I put up myself. The results are missing Necrosis damage due to the Dummy bug, but as it hasn't changed from live, it should probably be doing around 7% of my damage. DRW duration is shorter than it should be too but is apparently a known bug. The rotation is quite complicated and once it gets going is basically the same sequence repeated over and over (assuming no misses) with DRW and Hysteria thrown in when they are available and when your RP is full. I won't give the exact rotation as I don't approve of people just picking up rotations off the net and not really understanding them, but it's all about keeping both diseases up, using many Heart Strikes and Horn of Winter (yes, I incorporated this into my rotation) to build up near max RP (should be around 120-130 if you've performed the rotation correctly) for a Death Strike and using an Obliterate just as the diseases are about to trail off, followed by Death Coil spam and then starting the rotation again.

Total/Percentage damage done by the top 8 abilities


Death Strike


Obliterate


Heartstrike


Bloodworms


Rune Weapon


Ghoul


Pet damage compared to mine



In summary:

I'm quite happy with the results. It's putting out more DPS than I'm doing on live, even without the Kirin Tor ring and Greatnes card I got recently.

Ghoul is a nice DPS increase although it's survivability in raids may be a problem without Night of the Dead.

DRW duration is awesome, even with the bugged duration and the reduced damage. When the duration is fixed and with the Glyph that adds 10 seconds, it'll be even better.

Bloodworms are kinda meh. Assuming they are alive for their whole duration (not always goig to be possible), they do about 1.5% of my DPS, or 0.5% per talent point, and the healing is miniscule, so I'm not sold on them over survivability.

Deathstrike. There are people on both sides of the fence on this one, but as you can see by the results, the damage difference is very small and using DS while diseases are up and OB when they are about to end does alot of damage and gives enough death runes for HS spam each rotation, and seeing as HS is pretty close to (and can crit higher than) OB, that's a very good thing.


Hope this info is interesting or useful for people that can't get onto the PTR or don't have time to test a spec like this. Comments and discussion are more than welcome. Sorry for the wall of text (to be fair though, I did try and add alot of pretty pics too!) :P

[Arisen]

/Wave!

Does the change to DRW make it a targettable pet? Would be interesting for PvP if that were the case.

How big are the incoming heals from the big crit Death strikes? again i think this could have pvp implications, given the numbers you posted, isnt that like 70% (Ballpark) heal?

Also i expect micro-management of perma ghoul without the deep unholy talents will be a pain in the ass come ulduar

[superflystud]

As for Glyphs, I'm fairly certain that has been proven several time over that Glyph of Blood Strike affects both BS and HS, and that it is activated against bosses with any debuff that would normally cause them to be snared, whether they are or not.  I believe it works off of the FFB debuff, as well as Thunderclap and other slowing abilities.

Just throwing this out there, but that would be a good 6-7% more damage.

EDIT: As for spec, I might drop Blood Worms for Improved Blood Aura and Mark of Blood. You lose that small damage bonus, but make yourself easier to heal and possibly give your tank a slight survivability buff.

Also, I think I would drop Runic Power Master and your one point in Epidemic for Blood-Caked Blade.

But, to be fair, everything I mentioned is just my opinion, not a flaw in your spec.

[Mothhive]

@ Arisen I hadn't thought to check if DRW is targetable to be honest, but will take a look tonight when I get home, same with the heals from Deathstrike. Was just focusing on DPS and rotation last night.

As for the ghoul, I'm still kinda hoping they'll implement something to help the survivability for the specs that aren't deep unholy, but I won't hold my breath. Think I'll just bribe one of the healers to keep it up for me. :P


@ Superflystud I have heard that about the Blood Strike Glyph, but never seen any solid evidence to support it. I might end up testing this out at some point. Anyone have any idea what all the abilities are that would apply a snare to a boss in a raid situation, and is Thunderclap actually a snare? I thought it only slowed attack speed? if that counted, wouldn't Frost fever count too?

As for Improved Blood Aura, it won't exist come 3.1. It has changed to a self buff that grants 10% extra healing to you in Blood Presence and the 4% healing from blood presence in Frost and unholy. I think I can probably live without Vampiric blood too as I very rarely use it in raids and was just a filler talent. It's just a shame that there aren't anymore DPS talents in Blood to put the points into.

The Runic Power Mastery over Blood Caked Blade was a difficult decision, but the 2 points in RPM are superior to 3 in BCB in my mind due to the buff (extra 6% damage) it gives a glyphed Death Strike, 12 extra seconds of DRW and the ability to spam an extra Death Coil when dumping my runic power. BCB fully talented only makes up 3% of my damage and I think the buffs of RP and the 3 seconds extra disease (the rotation I have been using is pretty tight already and wouldn't be possible without those 3 seconds) more than make up for it. If I could get both, I definately would.

[Samhawk]

Whats the rotation?

[Rowen]

I'm unable to get unto the PTR myself, and I'm dying to try (or know) something. Is the new glyph of diseases still available? I mean the one that refreshes your diseases on your current target when you use Pestilence. Could you try that one, weaving one pestilence into your rotation instead of IT+PS?

[Insan]

I dont understand why people would want to have that glyph. Pestilence gives no damage at all on the PTR. Taken you have 2 deathrunes for either IT+PS or Pest+HS, you are trading 2 damage ability's that deal a lot of damage itself for 1 heartstrike. For AoE fights i can see the benefit, but not on a boss fight without adds (aka test dummie).

[Mothhive]

The glyph choices on the PTR are very limited and unfeasably expensive at the moment, but even so, I wouldn't recommend the disease glyph for DPS, especially for the rotation I was using last night (No Samhwak, I won't tell you. You'll have to use your brain. :P) where the RP from using both IT and PS are needed to get the most out of Death Strike. Also, in 3.1, IT and PS both do a decent ammount of damage and using a blood/deathrune on pestilence and only saving 1 GCD doesn't seem worth it on boss fights. In AoE groups, it may be different, but it would primarily affect trash DPS, and if Naxx is anything to go by, trash doesn't last long enough to need a reaplication/refresh of diseases anyway. It may be different in Ulduar, but I would personally just tab and pestillence if needed and save space for a real DPS glyph.

[bujaberry]

Can we get a link to your armory to compare? If not, what weapon are you wielding, what sigil?

[Despized]

excellent post, very helpfull...matter o fact prolly the best 3.1 dps thread ive seen/read and we all know there are about 50 a day.

my only question is OVERALL not for CD burst dmg, will BCB outdo the extra drw timer from +30 rp in dps? what is the procrate on a 5 min fight (patch)? 45% wep dmg is pretty nice.

I think 2 points in rpm would be great for a DS build?
1 point in RPM and 2 in BCB would be a good balance???

if ur gonna go OB+HS pure 3 points BCB is prolly the way to go
CD burst +1RPM +2BCB=win??

if u test these let us know plspls

[Rowen]

I dont understand why people would want to have that glyph. Pestilence gives no damage at all on the PTR. Taken you have 2 deathrunes for either IT+PS or Pest+HS, you are trading 2 damage ability's that deal a lot of damage itself for 1 heartstrike. For AoE fights i can see the benefit, but not on a boss fight without adds (aka test dummie).

My reasoning is the following. Suppose two rotations, one with glyph and one without, with 21 second long diseases. Without glyph, one rotation could be very similar to this one:

IT-PS-DS-HS-HS-DUMP
DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DUMP

Without the glyph the rotation would repeat itself, however with glyph you could do this one once you have diseases running:

DS-HS-HS-HS-PT-DUMP
DS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DUMP

As you see, you do 2 DSs with and without glyph, so no gain here (loss to the glyphed rotation, since you must have the glyph, of course). However, you lose IT+PS and gain 1 HS. Runic power gained should be the same, unless you use IT glyph

If 1 HS, plus free death coils procs, deals more damage that 1 IT and 1 PS then the glyph may be worth it, if the amount of damage gained is greater than the damage gained with any other glyph out there. By the numbers posted by the OP, 1 HS deals for him about 3100 damage, while 1 PS deals on average around 1710. The damage dealt by one average Ice touch can't be seen, though looking at the size of the slice it looks like it's subtantially less than 1500.

Also, each heart strike may proc one death coil. Each death coils deals on average 1940 damage; since the proc chance is 15%, on a large enough sample we could say it increases HS average damage by 1940x0.15, or about 290.

So we´re looking at 3390 damage against what may be 3200 at best. Is a small increase, and only (rather weak, I admit) theorycrafting, that's why I was looking for some test on it.

[Mothhive]

If you click on my Sig, you'll get taken to my armory. The gear I have on the PTR is slightly different though as I didn't have the Greatness card (was Mirror of Truth) or the Kirin Tor ring (was Hemorrhaging Circle) when I copied my char.

@ Despized Thanks!

Overall, I think 3 points in BCB might actually do a little more damage than the extra 12 seconds of DRW (will have to test 51/0/20 at some point to compare), but when you take into account the extra DS damage, the usefulness of having a larger RP pool in general and the RNG of BCB, it could go either way. Again, will have to test this out at some point, as well as the other options you suggested. I just wish they'd swap BCB and Spell Deflection (so I could drop the 3 random poihnts I have in Bloodworms). That would make everyone happy! Everone meaning me. :P


@ Rowen, you made some good points, but as you eventually concluded, the difference would be minimal. Also, I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) an Unholy DK or Boomkin on your target would increase the damage of your IT by 13% to close the gap further. In the end, you'd probably get more of a difference with a different glyph.

[Rowen]

@ Rowen, you made some good points, but as you eventually concluded, the difference would be minimal. Also, I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) an Unholy DK or Boomkin on your target would increase the damage of your IT by 13% to close the gap further. In the end, you'd probably get more of a difference with a different glyph.

Yes, ebon plagebringer will increase your IT and death coil damage; so would the blood strike glyph increase heart strike. In any case looks like blood will be quite interesting in 3.1, and I want to consider all options with an open mind.

[Crazhr]

Im sorry but is it realy worth it to dump the runic power? That has been quite a while since I was playing blood and I know there are quite a number of changes in 3.1 but when I tryed blood I always got better dps by just using as many heart strike as I could and I never had a spare gcd to dumb the power and the few times I did try to use my rp I always got a lower dps.

[Mothhive]

Not dumping runic power is essentially wasting it once it gets to max and it will lower your DPS. It's a little difficult to always use it in live at the moment as you have to use your Sudden Doom procs manually, but in 3.1 Sudden Doom is automatic and makes things alot easier. In my current 3.1 rotation, I don't dump any RP (the RP increases the damage of my Death Strike because of the glyph) until after I Obliterate the diseases off, then I have time to dump 3 Death Coils while my runes are still on cooldown or if it's up, DRW.

Edited as I forgot to mention DRW ;D

[Mothhive]

Wow...

Death Strike now deals 75% weapon damage (up from 60% weapon damage), additional damage increased as well. (From 178.2 to 222.75 for Rank 5)

Dancing Rune Weapon now lasts 10 sec plus 1 sec per 5 additional runic power, doing the same attacks as the Death Knight but for 50% reduced damage. Cooldown reduced from 3 min to 1.5 min.

Might of Mograine now increases the critical strike damage damage bonus of your Blood Boil, Blood Strike, Death Strike, and Heart Strike abilities by 15/30/45%. (Old - Increased damage of all these abilities and Obliterate for 3/7/10%)

Improved Death Strike now Increases the damage of your Death Strike by 15/30% and increases its critical strike chance by 3/6%

Glyph of Death Strike - Increases your Death Strike's damage by 2% for every 2 runic power you currently have (up to a maximum of 25%). The runic power is not consumed by this effect. (Old - Increased your Death Strike's damage by 1% for every 5 runic power you currently have.)

These changes are awesome! Won't be able to test them out tonight, but tomorrow I'm going to see how this affects my DPS and post some results. Looks very promising for this spec though. ;D Tier 8 set bonuses are amazing too.

Item - Death Knight T8 Melee 2P Bonus (Class: Death Knight) -- Increases the critical strike chance of Death Coil and Frost Strike by 5%.
Item - Death Knight T8 Melee 4P Bonus (Class: Death Knight) -- Increases the bonus damage done per disease by 20% on Blood Strike, Heart Strike, Obliterate, and Scourge Strike.

Can't wait for 3.1! :P


Edit, sleepily skimming the notes for the loss! The DS glyph maxing out the damage at only 26 runic power and doing almost the same damage as 130 would've done before the change is really nice. The 2 points in RPM don't look so important now and might be worth swapping for BCB. DS being removed from Vicious Strikes is a bit of a blow though and the first 5 points in unholy to get to the better DPS talents are really shit. Hope it all evens out.

[comablack]

move the 1 filler point in runetap to taste for blood
parry/dodge/get hit by that aoe, 15% chance for 5 free rp
its probally like a .1% dps increase but still

[Ilfayt]

Interesting idea, if you don't have the T7 set effects(as you'll be dropping them in ulduar), I'd say it'd be better to let the diseases go till they drop with DS instead, then reapplying them. The last tick from both diseases would make up the difference between DS and Obliterate as the diseases are falling off.

[herpecin]

just a heads up, in the new build the DS glyph no longer get benifit from the extra 30 RP you get from RPM.

[Mothhive]

Okay, I guess there are some minor changes needed on your build. No clue if they have been mentioned yet, since I havn't read every single post. So perdon me if so..

1. Get rid of Bloodworms. Srsly, do so!
2. Replace Rune Tap with Vampiric Blood.
3. Replace Master of Ghouls and spend some points in Blood-Caked Blade instead.

Cheers

Didn't read every post? You didn't even read the first post! :P If you had, I explained that I don't normally spec Bloodworms, but was testing them out to see how much they affected DPS (not alot) and was trying to figure out if they were a viable replacement to 3 points that were purely survivability, but not really necessary, especially since DS is becoming an integral part of the rotation.

Your second point isn't a bad idea. On live at the moment, I use the 2 together in "Oh shit" moments and haven't really thought which would be superior if used alone.

3rd point, with the changes to the DS glyph, I may well move the 2 points from RPM and possibly the 1 in Epidemic into BCB. Going to do some testing before I decide. Probably won't be getting rid of the Ghoul as if it stays alive, is a huge increase in DPS for 1 point. Will have to see how raids go.

Edit: 4th point, I already have improved DS in the spec and this whole spec is about DS replacing OB. You might want to read posts before commenting. ;D