Unholy 3.1

[Bealj001]

Sup Yall,

Looking to go: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...6&version=9658

With the third glyph being Death Coil, increase by 15%.

Wondering if anyone has crunched the numbers on Pre 3.1 Vs PTR 3.1 and weather there is a calculated/estimated difference in damage on SS, Gargoyle (if yet known yet), and overall.

[Bullshifter]

There's numbers over at Elitistjerks, but in a nutshell, Garg is stronger and costs less, SS is nicely boosted, PS is boosted so our disease applicating sequence is slightly stronger.

Personally, if this is a pve spec, I'd revise the spec to lose Desecration, finish filling out BcB and Morbidity, pick up NotD (the ghoul will die all the time if you don't, you don't want that to happen), get the glyph of SS and max Epidemic. You will have to rob the last point from somewhere else, and everything currently points at Dark Conviction being the least bang for the buck of the talent choices currently, so make it 4/5 to finish Epidemic. Final spec would be 16/0/55.

Glyphs being SS, Ghoul, and probably DC. IT will have even less value than it does now (right now it's use is as "the best of the bad glyphs for Unholy", 3.1 brings DC or UB which are actually pretty nice glyphs for Unholy, giving us a solid 3rd glyph.

Of course, this is all on the assumption that the spec you posted is a pve spec, since there's some pvp talents lacking, other than Desecration.

[Bealj001]

Ok, I have rework'd the tree how does this look?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9684

I am also wondering why people are suggesting glyph of SS as well, it is my understanding the diseases in 3.1 will stay up for 15 untalented, and then boost to plague i figured would give people the incentive to recycle the process by then, I may have not completely understood why people use it so please help me out. It can only help me get better damage out of my DK

Thanks

[orestes]

I would go like this actually:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=23050200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000230230335003105203050 023133151&glyph=082126050607&version=9684

Rotation:
SS > SS > BS > BS > DC+
SS > SS > SS > DC+

No AOE and no GF but I suspect it will have great single target DPS.

[bujaberry]

I would go like this actually:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=23050200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000230230335003105203050 023133151&glyph=082126050607&version=9684

Drop 1 point from NotD and pick up unholy blight, its 100+ dps for a single point, another dot to keep up. Nice for singletarget, aside from being insane for aoe.

[TeeZed]

I would go like this actually:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=23050200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000230230335003105203050 023133151&glyph=082126050607&version=9684

Rotation:
SS > SS > BS > BS > DC+
SS > SS > SS > DC+

No AOE and no GF but I suspect it will have great single target DPS.

You take Ebon plaguebringer and ignore diseases? Nice

[Bullshifter]

Drop 1 point from NotD and pick up unholy blight, its 100+ dps for a single point, another dot to keep up. Nice for singletarget, aside from being insane for aoe.

Personally, I'd lose a point from BcB before I lost one from NotD. 2pts there is mandatory imo.

And oh boy, the change to desecration being applied with Scourge Strike makes the Unholy tree feel incredibly starved for points now. =( And I'm still torn on the movement increase. My spec will probably look like this now:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...7&version=9684

or possibly with 2 pts in I-UP for movement increase robbed from BcB if I end up deciding that the movement is worth it.

[Balbaroy]

You take Ebon plaguebringer and ignore diseases? Nice

Glyph of scourge strike bud

[Balbaroy]

Personally, I'd lose a point from BcB before I lost one from NotD. 2pts there is mandatory imo.

And oh boy, the change to desecration being applied with Scourge Strike makes the Unholy tree feel incredibly starved for points now. =( And I'm still torn on the movement increase. My spec will probably look like this now:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...7&version=9684

or possibly with 2 pts in I-UP for movement increase robbed from BcB if I end up deciding that the movement is worth it.

Lose BCB and Necrosis points for 5% crit in blood tree and unholy aura

[zahbohra]

Anyone know if Ghoul Frenzy also affects your gargoyle?

[Bullshifter]

Lose BCB and Necrosis points for 5% crit in blood tree and unholy aura

Dark Conviction is a weaker talent on a point per point basis than either Necrosis or BcB. It's definitely where I would rob points from first. Necrosis being the strongest of those 3, and BcB being marginally better than DC. I-UP is a judgment call, hard to put real numbers on the benefit.

[KonkeroaR]

Hey guys, I'm kinda new to the site but would like to contribute to the thread what I think will be my raiding spec come 3.1:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...=082126050602&

A couple of notes on the spec.
1. I find that BcB is my lowest DPS no matter where I test it, it honestly does not seem worth the points.
2. I am a big fan of Epidemic as it gives me a bigger window to refresh my diseases with SS.
3. The points out of Dirge are up for debate, but can be easily moved from DC.
4. Not overly happy with the Virulence move, as I would never normally put points in it.
5. I prefer Glyph of Corpse Explosion over the Glyph of Raise Dead, because it's an extra chance at some damage, and I have no problem paying the gold for the reagents.

[cryogenic]

This is apparently the spec to go http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...1&version=9704
based on the math on dark conviction only being effective for 60% of damage so low value.

Regardless of BcB being your lowest category of damage its a higher amount of damage then you get from adding to death coil.
Morbidity switching back with virulence would be preferable with hit being rather easily attainable on t8 gear oh well 263 raid cap is nice and easy and you can't really move the tree around yourself...
Hopefully the tree magically debloats itself if they are gonna nerf scourge strike again...

[Bullshifter]

I'm at a toss up on BcB and Morbidity now. A lot of testing in Ulduar is showing that there's a LOT of movement, and most of the testers at EJ are finding that while BcB is a fairly strong talent on Patchwerk style fights, in actual use in Ulduar it's dropping to around 1.5% of damage contributed which would lower it's value significantly- while at the same time they are finding DC to be their number 3 contributer after SS and melee, at anywhere between 12 and 15%. *sigh*

Also, don't worry about the latest PTR's notes changes to SS, it's actually been performing this way for some time now on the PTR, and the latest "change" is actually a tooltip correction.

[cryogenic]

Well if I can't manage to keep in melee range I probably shouldnt be in the raid nor will i have much runic power less im icy touch DC spamming which means I might aswell be replaced by a lock.
Good to hear that its just tooltip.
Pity if they've got too caught up in making the raid difficult and made it world of rangecraft again because really ranged play is the most boring crap imaginable I know that cast bar says 2 seconds but im sure it's taking 10 GCD's are too long for me.

[Bullshifter]

Well, I don't think it's THAT bad, lol...

The change to Black Ice affecting both Frost and Shadow damage is rather interesting too. That would affect something like 75% of our damage. Impurity's affect has been decreased slightly as well. Back to the drawing board. =P

[Lemonsmith]

Well if I can't manage to keep in melee range I probably shouldnt be in the raid nor will i have much runic power less im icy touch DC spamming which means I might aswell be replaced by a lock.
Good to hear that its just tooltip.
Pity if they've got too caught up in making the raid difficult and made it world of rangecraft again because really ranged play is the most boring crap imaginable I know that cast bar says 2 seconds but im sure it's taking 10 GCD's are too long for me.

I think you're overreacting a bit. A fight that involves a lot of movement, such as Grob now if you need a current reference, doesn't mean you will be sitting back and throwing IT and DC the whole time. It just means you won't have 100% melee time. Also, it means you'll be tossing DCs every time you fall out of melee range, which increases DC use. It merely shifts the proportions around, making BCB less desirable. It doesn't mean all melee classes are dead in the water.

[Exclusive]

Well, I don't think it's THAT bad, lol...

The change to Black Ice affecting both Frost and Shadow damage is rather interesting too. That would affect something like 75% of our damage. Impurity's affect has been decreased slightly as well. Back to the drawing board. =P

I was playing around with the same idea, going like xx 10 xx (full unholy but with black ice instead of going into blood) But that would lose quite some AP and 4% 2H dmg. And AP is benefitting spells on its turn again with Impurity (the 5% less won't make an insane difference) And when I look at my recount, white hits and scourge strikes are always fighting for nr 1 and 2 on my personal meter, they both benefit a lot from the 4% talent.
I think that in the end, losing AP and especially the 4% 2H dmg will be a bigger loss in dmg than 10% shadow damage will bring.

[Bullshifter]

Agreed, I don't think I'll be going 10 into Frost for Black Ice. My newest debate is that with Impurity being reduced to 20% how that affects things. It's currently valued at around .7% per point. BcB currently has a value of around .75% per point, though that could drop to around .5% per point if movement intensive encounters are prevalent. Morbidity is currently valued at around .45% per point, but again could gain value to as much as .7% per point if movement is prevalent enough, which appearing to be the case. My pre-Impurity nerf plan was to go 12/0/59:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9704


Nerfing it by 20% (25% down to 20%) reduces it's contribution to about .56% per point- which has me wondering if it would be worth it to lose the 5 pts there, and fill either BcB or Morbidity (whichever didn't get used in the 12/0/59 build, depending on what ended up better in Ulduar) and sticking the leftover 2 in Dark Conviction to bring the build to 14/0/57.


http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9704