Seal of Blood/Martyr Go Bye Bye?

[Deathleech]

I'm not going to try and tell all rets how to play, but if I may suggest something for you to try, when you are about to go oom, switch to Seal of Wisdom(I'll assume the boss/mob already has judegement of wisdom applied, if not, go ahead and throw that on there too), and Hit Divine plea. Now thanks to the way the class is built, you have a slower weapon and only swing 3.4 seconds or so, giving 4% of your mana back per swing(if it procs but its proc rate is very high). So lets assume it goes off, and in the 15 minutes of Divine Plea, you also get 3 hits and get 12% mana back. 12+25%=37% of your mana pool back in 15 seconds. Then you switch back to your regular seal and resume dps.

This will drop your DPS, but our class isn't meant to be sustained DPS, its a burst dps class. Burst damage, wait, burst again. If we have to change to have a damage burst, damage burst, mana burst, damage burst, that may be a challenging new part to the Ret class, I'll give you that. But for raid utility, that 15 seconds you spend getting mana back to do your next burst can be a godsend to us healers and the rest of the raid. Now you have 15 seconds to analyze the raid, see who's close to the tanks for threat and throw hand of Salvation on them, and other helpful things that can be done. I understand Rets wanting to stick to DPS as the DPS tree, but paladins are just so damn useful, I can't help but NOT want one in a raid for all they can do for us. Damage is almost a second thought for having a paladin around.

Any raider leader who would kick out a paladin for not topping the meters but putting out good burst damage and huge raid utility(3% increased damage, increased crit, increased damage with imp BoM, aggro reducing HoS, emergency LoH on the tank, if a tank dies and gets battle ressed, paladin can LoH to get him topped up quick to get him back in there, etc) is an idiot in my book.

While this idea would be great in theory, much like hunters and their Aspect of the Viper, in actuality there is no way it could work. At least not with the current WoW mechanics.

Unlike hunters we aren't able to pump out a crazy amount of DPS and then switch to Viper which brings us back down with other classes on the damage meters while simultaneously giving mana back. We are already extremely low on the damage meters and even nerfing our dmg for 15 seconds would put us that much lower. This is with us going all out, using EVERY damage ability we have when it's up an entire fight yet still be in the last 10-15 spots on a meter. Add in 15 more seconds of lower dmg, several times over a 5 minute fight and it will drop that much more.

Yes paladins bring a lot of buffs, but unfortunately other classes bring them too so you have many other outlets to get these buffs. Most do significantly higher DPS as well. Bring a fury warrior, rogue, BM hunter, and priest and you have ALL the buffs you mentioned. Unless the rogue is stacked with only a few classes there should be minimal effort getting all the buffs a paladin brings with the other classes.

Raid leaders won't kick you for having poor DPS but they will kick you for having poor DPS and for not offering any unique raid buffs or utility.

[Elementium]

I have never used SotM because of SA, but because it is best PvE damage seal.

Actually they go together, maybe you didn't notice.. the damage you take from SotM get's healed thus putting SA into play regenerating mana for you. Without SA we're just unnecessarily hurting ourselves, plus with our damage increasing the recoil will be bigger so yeah..

[Lancera]

hmmm had thought u can critisize if u want but moving reckoning up to tier 2 or 3 and change it onto ur chance to hit and with few minor tweek's maybe increasing melee speed by lil too in prot make rets life easier? using JoW each extra hit will generate mana back thus making you not go oom just idea :P and blizz did want ret pala to branch into other tree's

[sparks]

forget it

[Lancera]

also if u read on main page GC said there gunna make changes to SoB/SoM so :-\

[Elementium]

Yeah, I don't think they're gonna screw us over on this just yet. then again I used to play a shaman so my opinion of blizzard is two-faced.

[Spronny]

I'm sry but certain people seem to be missing the point of the ret tree. every class has buffs and benefits to the group/raid so lets ignore those. that makes the ret tree a DPS tree. so it stands that we want dps to match other dps speced classes. i don't want to stop in the middle of a fight and use SoW to get my mana back, nor use lay of hands on the tank... if i did that i'm now useless until i get some mana back... we don't use the glyph for LoH, and watching other people's threat, thats kinda their own job and the tank's.

ok so now i'd like to see the armory page for the ret pally that can judge for 10-15k damage. my gear is pretty good, i do 2-3k dps on 10 mans, my judgements only hit 4k reg, 6-7k crit.

now as for the topic, SoB/SoM will still be the best seals to use DPS wise. the next closest thing is SoC. If we ended up using SoR then fanaticism would be useless. no need to have increased judgement crit if it can't crit. the only time i have an issue with threat is when i attack before the tank realy built his up, usualy when i crit and do 13k damage in about 3 secs.

SA will be a big loss, and the glyph for SoB/SoM will be useless to ret and maybe prot too. atm i haven't run out of mana for any boss fight because none of them last long enough, and if i use 1 mana pot when i get below 1k mana i would get back all my mana so i'm not to worried about running out since it looks like i'l be specing into more int with the patch. it takes at least 3 mins to lose all my mana using conc with the reg rotation. I do hope the fix it a bit to either lower the mana cost of spells or fix out SoC since that was the original ret pally seal.

[Narveid]

Its very simple, we are already one of the last on the dps lists on patch 3.1 at the moment, despite our dps being slightly buffed and some more mana regen and all. The glyph isn't THAT great, but gives us a little mana at least .. Without SoM/SoB, we are the least effective dps, with SoM/SoB we are a dps with recoil damage that gets higher and higher for each tier of raiding. What do you want to go with? You go with one thing, pray that Blizz lowers the recoil damage / remove it, or somethin along those lines.

[Parietis]

hmmm had thought u can critisize if u want but moving reckoning up to tier 2 or 3 and change it onto ur chance to hit and with few minor tweek's maybe increasing melee speed by lil too in prot make rets life easier? using JoW each extra hit will generate mana back thus making you not go oom just idea :P and blizz did want ret pala to branch into other tree's

Betrayer of Humanity + Seal of Blood proccing double hits. Yeah, that wouldn't be overpowered at all.

[Anduril]

ok so now i'd like to see the armory page for the ret pally that can judge for 10-15k damage. my gear is pretty good, i do 2-3k dps on 10 mans, my judgements only hit 4k reg, 6-7k crit.

I regularly crit judgement of blood for well over 10K in 25 mans. You can armory off my sig.

[slipshade]

I regularly crit judgment of blood for well over 10K in 25 mans. You can armory off my sig.

im in crap gear and just with raid buffs and jc im critting 12k+ judgments when my mirror of truth procs while using aw its not hard just circumstantial.

If some with all best in slots said they were hitting occasionally getting 16K judgments i wouldn't disagree

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cus&n=Penticle

by no means is my gear optimal but i don't have trouble at least making 3.5-3.7k dps consistently in 25 man and before you start dissecting and blah blah blah i got 10 days played on this toon 4 days as a lvl 80 and it is not my main char.