They hate LoLadin!

[xalaii]

Other class players(%95) allways hate from us. They have many arguments about it but we still QQ in our forums. Who is right? are paladins really OP so other class players are right to hate us ? or we are not OP and other class players are silly? ??? ???

[Xthform]

I'm not going to say paladins are OP but they do have a bigger edge on the competition then other classes. Take Ret for example two stuns both ranged one that doesn't break from damage, Invincible bubbles, Heals, Plate,Very strong physical damage along with magic damage thats just as strong as there physical. They can and do get beaten but they do have alot more on there side then other classes.

[belfpala]

I'm not going to say paladins are OP but they do have a bigger edge on the competition then other classes. Take Ret for example two stuns both ranged one that doesn't break from damage, Invincible bubbles, Heals, Plate,Very strong physical damage along with magic damage thats just as strong as there physical. They can and do get beaten but they do have alot more on there side then other classes.

To be fair and balanced, we also lack a lot of what other classes have.

From a ret perspective: We have no way to slow an opponent below normal speed (whether for ourselves or for a teammate), we have no healing debuff. We have a very difficult time getting in range with most ranged classes if they're determined to keep us away. We have no reliable short cooldown interrupt; the only interrupts we have are tied to our CC which is our only way to keep a kiter in range (belfs excepted, with a long cooldown silence). We have no way to remove a buff from another player.

From a holy perspective: See the interrupt comment above. In addition, we have no way to get someone OFF of us other than bubble, we have no way to get AWAY from someone determined to stay on us, we only have one school of magic so a simple Kick locks out all heals and utility (including bubble, btw).

That said, I do understand why players of other classes hate it when we go Immune and heal to full.

[PapaNasty]

paladins are very good against people who don't have good gear + are bad players

bad players are the ones who tend to QQ most about class mechanics etc being the cause of their own failure, because they haven't learnt to play their own class well


Also we can always expect some degree of QQ since paladins are essentially a "cooldown" class, with very powerful cooldowns but we are lacking in other areas e.g. no decent interrupt / no offensive purge etc


On top of that, there's always the Paper, Rock, Scissors effect. Where some classes will always hate a particular spec of paladin because it's the paper to their rock. With 3x specs it means that a lot of classes will hate one or another spec of paladin simply because we're a good counter to their class.



huge generalisations there, but on the whole I find it to be largely true

[moominator]

There are numerous skilled rets on or near top of most bgs. Ret is doing just fine, little bit on the op side tbh. U dont have healing debuff but u have cc's on rather short cds, combine that with gear, skill and another cc class in 2s and u have a pretty solid team. QQ about this class in general is hilarious..

Oh and dont make me start on rets cousin called Holy. I guess being the faaar best pvp healing class in game isnt enough

[Xthform]

To be fair and balanced, we also lack a lot of what other classes have.

From a ret perspective: We have no way to slow an opponent below normal speed (whether for ourselves or for a teammate), we have no healing debuff. We have a very difficult time getting in range with most ranged classes if they're determined to keep us away. We have no reliable short cooldown interrupt; the only interrupts we have are tied to our CC which is our only way to keep a kiter in range (belfs excepted, with a long cooldown silence). We have no way to remove a buff from another player.

From a holy perspective: See the interrupt comment above. In addition, we have no way to get someone OFF of us other than bubble, we have no way to get AWAY from someone determined to stay on us, we only have one school of magic so a simple Kick locks out all heals and utility (including bubble, btw).

That said, I do understand why players of other classes hate it when we go Immune and heal to full.

What about JoJ thats a great snare and a ranged one to boot.

[Verteidiger]

What about JoJ thats a great snare and a ranged one to boot.

What do you mean snare? I didnt saw someone Walking or even standing still after i JoJ'd him.. :-\

[lawladino]

What about JoJ thats a great snare and a ranged one to boot.

Want to cry about hamstring, slow, crippling poison, concussive shot, wing clip, chains of ice, etc aswell?

[belfpala]

What about JoJ thats a great snare and a ranged one to boot.

Not going into this again.

Just putting up some numbers:

Typical snare is a 50% movement speed debuff. Assume the class you're snaring has a 15% movement speed increase. 1.15 * 0.5 = 57.5% movement speed. If your snaring class moves at 100% speed, that means you move 100/57.5 = 1.74 times faster than your snared target.

Ret paladin Judgement of Justice "snare" decreases movement speed to 100%. Ret paladin moves at 115%. That means the ret paladin moves 115/100 = 1.15 times faster than his "snared" target. We won't even attempt to modify the math for the probability of the class you're JoJing even noticing the debuff.

That's my final word about JoJ as a snare.

tl;dr: 1.74 > 1.15.

[Xthform]

Its still better then nothing at all.

[belfpala]

Its still better then nothing at all.

That it is. It's awesome in WG and SotA when defending the courtyards.

My comment that Ret has no snare wasn't intended to mean ret SHOULD have a snare. It was simply meant to point out something that ret lacks compared to other classes, to contrast with the list of things in the OP that paladins have.

[Xthform]

That it is. It's awesome in WG and SotA when defending the courtyards.

My comment that Ret has no snare wasn't intended to mean ret SHOULD have a snare. It was simply meant to point out something that ret lacks compared to other classes, to contrast with the list of things in the OP that paladins have.

Honestly if Rets got a snare on top of everything else I might have to start throwing OP at them I'd say give holy a snare but there already super imbalanced in arena as it is maybe give prot one.

[belfpala]

Honestly if Rets got a snare on top of everything else I might have to start throwing OP at them I'd say give holy a snare but there already super imbalanced in arena as it is maybe give prot one.

Prot already has something better than a snare, on a 30 second cooldown: daze from avenger's shield.

It's no spamstring, of course.

[Vongimi]

From a holy perspective: See the interrupt comment above. In addition, we have no way to get someone OFF of us other than bubble, we have no way to get AWAY from someone determined to stay on us, we only have one school of magic so a simple Kick locks out all heals and utility (including bubble, btw).

That said, I do understand why players of other classes hate it when we go Immune and heal to full.

Get someone off: Hammer of Justice, Repentence
Get away: Possibly the best escape skill in the game, blessing of freedom
And yes, the interrupt is a problem, but when you heal for so much so quickly, does it really matter? Dont forget that your mana regen is INSANE and you basically have an infinite mana bar. Think of it from a priests point of view.

Get someone off: Fear
Get away: Nothing
Interrupt: Same problem
Mana Regen: Drinking

Holy pallies are OP stop QQ plz

[Xthform]

Get someone off: Hammer of Justice, Repentence
Get away: Possibly the best escape skill in the game, blessing of freedom
And yes, the interrupt is a problem, but when you heal for so much so quickly, does it really matter? Dont forget that your mana regen is INSANE and you basically have an infinite mana bar. Think of it from a priests point of view.

Get someone off: Fear
Get away: Nothing
Interrupt: Same problem
Mana Regen: Drinking

Holy pallies are OP stop QQ plz

I have a priest and I know they have some problems but its slowly getting better at least we got Body and Soul for getting away and the new Physic Horror is a semi decent interrupt.

[Lumidar]

Get someone off: Hammer of Justice, Repentence
Get away: Possibly the best escape skill in the game, blessing of freedom
And yes, the interrupt is a problem, but when you heal for so much so quickly, does it really matter? Dont forget that your mana regen is INSANE and you basically have an infinite mana bar. Think of it from a priests point of view.

did you actually play a paladin? Blessing of freedom is not an answer to everything (not to mention the fact it can be purged or spellstolen and usually is 90% of the time). sure it removes snares and slows but you're still vulnerable to stuns, fears and incapacitating skills. and it's HARDLY a get away skill as most enemies have ranged skills, pallies are the only ones that don't although we will be getting exorcism now.

then you go from talking about repentance ( a ret skill) to mana regen and heals... so are you talking about Healers who spec Ret in holy gear for PVP? cus personally the whole Out-Spec pvp thing is retarded. just like the pallies spec'd Prot in holy gear... there should be something limiting the other specs from being able to use holy gear while in them or diminishing it if you do.

But that's a whole other topic...

[belfpala]

Get someone off: Hammer of Justice, Repentence

I personally spec 51/12/31 when I do PvP holy so I can have reduced HoJ cooldown AND repentence.

Get away: Possibly the best escape skill in the game, blessing of freedom

Cyclone, travel form, pillar hump go go.
Earthbind/frost shock, instant ghost wolf, pillar hump go go.

No, HoF isn't. BUBBLE is the best escape skill in the game if someone else can do something about whatever you're trying to get away from.

Holy pallies are OP stop QQ plz

While I normally wouldn't reply to something like this, you were replying to my post when you typed it. I'm not (and wasn't) crying. I wasn't even posting a critique of any aspect of the game, something which is often confused for crying. Therefore I conclude you've fallen victim to a meme. This meme prevents thought by surfacing violently to the front of your mind whenever you respond to a post about class mechanics. This meme prevents any useful discussion. Even Ghostcrawler has trouble with this meme.

QQ is FotY. Get over it and express yourself more usefully. Thank you.

[Belegonfax]

Want to cry about hamstring, slow, crippling poison, concussive shot, wing clip, chains of ice, etc aswell?

while JoJ isn't the best snare against most classes, it's a MASSIVE counter to druids, a movement impairing effect that is not considered... a movement impairing effect, riiiiight

[Mutin]

while JoJ isn't the best snare against most classes, it's a MASSIVE counter to druids, a movement impairing effect that is not considered... a movement impairing effect, riiiiight

Read my sig..

[Cracked]

Go and watch roguecraft -> the part about who picked rogue.. now applies to dk and paladins