SW:P Refresh question

[Zal]

Just a thought,

my two trinkets are Dying Curse and Illustration of the Dragon Soul.

So im just wondering if when my Dragon trnket is at 10 stacks, and my dying curse procs (about 800ish SP)

if i use SW:P with both of those, can i keep refreshing the SW:P with the extra SP from the trinket even when the proc fades?

I havent had the time to test this out yet but if someone has already can they confirm this for me?

thx-

[Worshaka]

No, the MF refresh updates temp sp buffs... it however doesnt update crit buffs or other buffs such as Malygos sparks or thaddius charge stacks.

[Anglarana]

Just a thought,

my two trinkets are Dying Curse and Illustration of the Dragon Soul.

So im just wondering if when my Dragon trnket is at 10 stacks, and my dying curse procs (about 800ish SP)

if i use SW:P with both of those, can i keep refreshing the SW:P with the extra SP from the trinket even when the proc fades?

I havent had the time to test this out yet but if someone has already can they confirm this for me?

thx-

Yes m8 this is correct. It will still use the spellpower from both trinkets when refreshing with mind flay. This is the most fun when having 2 sparks from maly and you still have that spellpower when the sparks are away :P

[Nezoia]

No Anglarana, it's not.

Else we would be able to keep a 3500 spellpower SW:P running for almost a entire fight. Blizzard is to clever to let that happen.

The individual ticks benefit from temporary spellpower (Mind Flay renew have nothing to do with it), but do not account for Shadow Weaving, or Power Spark / Thaddius Charges.

This been clarified so many times it's not funny to see people still don't understand it.
It's allright to ask, but a player like Anglarana should really know this.

It was possible for a while in TBC, but they fixed it roughly mid-TBC, since druids could roll lifeblooms with the benefit from trinkets. Which was NOT intended, and rather overpowered.

[Anglarana]

No Anglarana, it's not.

Else we would be able to keep a 3500 spellpower SW:P running for almost a entire fight. Blizzard is to clever to let that happen.

The individual ticks benefit from temporary spellpower (Mind Flay renew have nothing to do with it), but do not account for Shadow Weaving, or Power Spark / Thaddius Charges.

This been clarified so many times it's not funny to see people still don't understand it.
It's allright to ask, but a player like Anglarana should really know this.

It was possible for a while in TBC, but they fixed it roughly mid-TBC, since druids could roll lifeblooms with the benefit from trinkets. Which was NOT intended, and rather overpowered.

Oke explain this then:

patchwerk fight.
5 shd weaving and all posible procs and stuff are up and i put pain up. i see ticks of 1500 (dont know the correct number).

after a few seconds when all my procs are up again i use potion of wild magic and recast pain. Now i see 2000 dmg ticks (again not the correct number).

When my potion runs out i continue to have 2k ticks on pain for the rest of the fight? explain that then m8.

[wayth]

Either you're getting a buff from somewhere else or you're not reading your WWS parse correctly. This has been clarified MANY times via testing on the EJ forums as well as shadowpriest.com and any of the other various classes that have similar abilities.

It was changed before WotLK was even released. Spellpower updates dynamically when the spell if refreshed with mind flay. Flat damage modifiers (Maly, Shadow Weaving, Thaddius) do not. End of story.

[Ananan]

Wild Magic pots give crit too, and crit means dot-damage. Confusingly enough crit isn't re-calculated when the spell is refreshed.

[Anglarana]

It should, seeing dots power is crit based atm. So it should get automatically updated then when casting mindflay after the crit bonus has faded.

[Nezoia]

But it's not. Just cling on to your imaginary numbers. The rest of the community think you're wrong, and got plenty of proof for you bring wrong.

[c4tuna]

Total crit buffs (moonkin, scorch, tow, crit component of wild magic, loatheb spores for example), and any % bonus damage buff (sparks, thaddius) to you persist through refreshing SWP. Spellpower is RECALCULATED each time you refresh it and Earth And Moon/CotE/ebon plague apply to the individual ticks (i believe, or they may be recalculated with each refresh).

[gaymer77]

The way that the talent works is that it refreshes timeof the current SW:P has up on the target at the time your MF does dmg (you can get screwed out of the refreshing if you wait until SW:P has less than 4 seconds left too btw). This means that if you had improved spirit tap, shadowy insight (from glyph of shadow), Dying Curse and Illustration of the Dragon Soul all proc at the same time you should pop your pot (potion of wild magic or destruction potion...whichever you choose to use) then you do everything you can to keep that refreshed. Yes it will continue to do the same amount of dmg/crit as it did after all those things happened. All that Pain and Suffering does is refresh the DURATION of the SW:P on the target not put a new one on that is based on whatever SP you have when your MF hits.

So, Nezoia you are 100% wrong about what you said.

[gaymer77]

For future reference, it's a good idea to know what you're talking about before you start defying common knowledge.

Yeah defying common knowledge of what? What YOU think is correct but isn't? I know for a fact that you can keep the same amount of SP on the SW:P just by simply refreshing the time (hmm I wonder what the wording on the talent "Your Mind Flay has a 100% chance to refresh the DURATION of your Shadow Word: Pain on the target" means not renews a SW:P but refreshes the duration). Went to Org just now & only had SW:P up on a target dummy. I made sure to click off shadowy insight & dying curse as they proc'd to make sure the extra SP didn't get factored into the calculations. Here is what the results were after 10 minutes of MF spam:

min 1248 average 1259 max 1304

After waiting for all the goodies to proc (shadowy insight, dying curse, dragon soul, improved spirit tap), I popped a potion of wild magic reset recount & spammed mindflay for another 10 minutes. Here is the results after 5 minutes of MF spam under those conditions:

min 1473 average 1588 max 1602

Looking at the combat log as I refreshed SW:P with my MF it kept rolling the same amount of 1591 the whole time.

After the 5 minutes of refreshing only with MF, I tried to reapply SW:P with no buffs on me at all (no shadowy insight or improved spirit tap or pot) only to be told "A more powerful spell already exists". Results of the testing? MF refreshes the timer on the SW:P that is on the target regardless of the amount of SP you have on. SW:P dot ticks are determined upon casting the SW:P not what buffs you have on as you are refreshing/dpsing.

[wayth]

That was a bug that was fixed in 3.0.9. Think whatever you want, but you're still going to get ridiculed when you advocate wrong information in the forum.

[syanid]

I went to do a test on the dummies, I used only swp and mf. SWP ticked for 1050, 1250 when dying curse procced. I continued to flay, the ticks dropped back to 1k. It's a subject that was discussed many times, only the current spell power and crit rating are accounted for, at the moment of the flay refreshing the tick.

So Anglarana and gaymer77 are incorrect and spreading false information. I can do wws to prove my point but I see no need since this has been discussed at shadowpriest.com and here many times.

Guys.. really, don't do that, it makes you look bad and people get the wrong info.

[Nezoia]

And if anyone wish to disprove common knowledge, bring hard proof.

[Juicebox]

When refreshing SW:P;

Buffs that increase your spellpower, will only increase the damage as long as you have the buff.


Buffs that increases your critical hit chance, or increases your damage by a certain amount (such as the ones at Thaddius or sparks at Malygos)
will still make your SW:P tick for more, even if those buffs are removed.


Every time you refresh your Shadow Word: Pain with Mind Flay, it will calculate your spellpower and make it tick based on that amount.
It wont calculate damage increasing debuffs in any way,such as our Shadow Weaving, which is why it's important to put up SW:P when we have 5 stacks of it, and not 3.

[Screecher]

So from reading all of this my understanding is when ever you get procs/buff there is no need to recast to receive those buffs because the MF will renew it, but once those buffs are gone even though you are renewing it with MF it will go back down? Also, the only time you would need to recast SW:P is the beginning of your rotation when you finally get 5 stacks of shadow weaving?

[Sedative]

Also, the only time you would need to recast SW:P is the beginning of your rotation when you finally get 5 stacks of shadow weaving?

I think most people get 5 stacks of weaving then cast swp, then go into w/e rotation...

[Screecher]

so there is never another need to recast SW:P after 5 stacks of shadow weave

[Priested]

Although this has been clarified about 1000 times...
Buffs like Imp Scorch, Earth and Moon are (hopefully) always on the boss. Therefore, when you refresh your SW:P it always factors in the additional damage b/c those buffs are continuously applied to the mob. Things like power sparks, and Thaddius charges just provide more damage to the spells that are cast while you are under their effect. According to Amm or however you spell it, if your same logic about SW:P ticks was applied to MB well geared spriests would constantly be getting MBs for close to 14k...