Thread: Mana Regen :(

  1. #1
    The Patient Saxneat's Avatar
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    Mana Regen :(

    I've heard it was coming. I just didn't believe it. But today I finally saw the blue post to confirm and put a number to our fears.

    "Spirit: The amount of mana regeneration granted by this stat has been reduced by 40%"

    here is the post: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patch...atchnotes.html

    Nedless to say i cried a little.

  2. #2

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    um..Where have you been?

  3. #3

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    This information has been known for sometime.

    What you probably aren't aware is talents such as meditation are being buffed so your IFSR regen remains the same but your OFSR regen is reduced.

    So if you are in the FSR for a vast majority of the time you will notice very little... if you're the sort of priest who plays the FSR game to gain large amounts of mana you're going to find it less powerful.

    They have also been talking about making encounters less GCD intense (ie less spammy type healing) in favour of making you think about how to heal effeciently (ie. which button do I press when to get the most effeciency).

    I think it's a good change.

  4. #4

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Problem is, it's not going to work to make healing less spammy. As long as paladins can still spam major single target heals at anything that moves, all other healers must follow, albeit slightly behind. Otherwise, why use anything but paladins? A priest carefully timing a Prayer of Healing four times a minute vs a paladin who simply spams 13k holy light crits at anything that moves, at 0.9sec intervals? Give me the paladin please. Double up that notion when you know that the paladin will finish 20 minutes later with a full manabar, the priest being oom in 2 minutes.

    Of course, you can flip that coin. They day paladins can not spam major single target heals at anything that moves, the paladin class is obsolete as a healer; their throughput+stability is their only real forte. They don't HAVE any major finesse in terms of which heal to chose. The day all healers are reduced to casting 4 heals / minute, you're back in pre-tbc days, where priests and druids were the only real healers.

    It's not really the spirit regen nerf that is bothering me to be honest. That's just a part of the deal, and if it was the only nerf I'd grudgingly live it down. But it's the complete elimination of control from the healer that is truly bothering me. Post 3.1, there is just no way for a holy priest to actually manage his own mana. FSR dancing is dead. Clearcasting is dead. Precise proccing of serendipity is dead (good riddance). FSR breaks is dead. Jury is still out on whether spirit is dead, but it's not looking good.

    Now you spend mana mitigating damage until you are oom, and then you lose, powerless to do any difference. Just like a shaman. Game over. Replenishment will determine whether you run oom in 3 or 4 minutes. No skillful play will make you last significantly longer, your total mana bar and regen will enable you to heal X damage, and once that is done, you can /sit and /giggle and /cheer while the raid dies.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  5. #5

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    False assumptions. Why are you comparing anything to paladins? They don't have heal over time spells. They don't have guardian spirit. They don't have PoM. They don't have anything that other healers have. Their regen is getting nerfed too. This change forces the raid to focus on maximizing performance (dps performance, tanks' mitigation performance) and it's forcing healers to cast wisely and not spam coh hoping for SoL afterwards. Hymns got redesigned, holy / disc priest will be stackable now. So your doom prediction is way off, it just gives an edge to the game now and there will be no more full mana bars at the end of the boss fights, which is the way it should be.

  6. #6

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    False assumptions. Why are you comparing anything to paladins? They don't have heal over time spells. They don't have guardian spirit. They don't have PoM. They don't have anything that other healers have.
    I'm comparing anything to a paladin because there has to be balance between the classes. Paladins have nothing but throughput and stability. It's what they do. Take that away from a paladin, and he's just a limited holypriest.

    Me and the other holypriest in my guild were laughing stocks when it came to mana efficiency in late TBC. We did heal like paladins mostly. It was the only way we could keep up with the shammies, countering the massive damage that was dished out.
    "Oh look, our priests are OOM again. What is this, the third time in ten minutes now?"
    It's not that we couldn't heal more conservatively. We just chose not to, knowing that there were innervates about, and that the healing was needed.
    But that made the paladin obsolete, and that was not good design.

    But you can turn it around. Give priests just enough mana to cast PoH 4 times per minute. Give shamans mana to cast chain heal every 5 seconds only. Give druids enough mana to hot up 2 targets and no more.

    Result: Paladins are now excessively superior to all other healers. The paladins nerfs to mana is not a showstopper for them. No paladin is worried about running oom. They are worried about the divine plea -50% healing done will make them bad tank healers while the effect is up.

    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  7. #7

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    In BC the nature in which I healed was almost always within the 5 second rule. Just the way our guild runs ended up. I heard wonderful tales about playing with the 5 second rule and even tried it but it never seemed to work out due to my specific position within the raid. Yes early on I needed a lot of innervates and used tons of mana pots. I started stacking my gear towards what I needed, not what was good for those dancing the 5 second rule and it finally ended up working. I was able to sustain healing for a long period of time. This meant stacking tons of spirit, the right flasks and food and knowing my spells well making sure I used them to my best benefit. For me this nerf won’t be to hard to adjust to because that is how I have played all along. I also know this style of play is possible.

    Even in the good old days pallies who always had more mana couldn’t replace a priest ever. They do single target well, groups not so well. We can do both and excel at either or. I have never even had a shammy close to me in being that flexible. Priests excel at tanking healing and party healing, we can fill any void any time. This is not going to change come the patch. We shouldn’t try to heal like anyone other then a priest, period because that is what we are. It is not being on top of the meters that counts, it is doing your job. Your job may or may not put you on the top of the meters.

    I always hear this class is better and you go to their forum and they say that class is better. No class is the be all end all of heals. All classes have perks and quirks.

  8. #8

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    It's not really the spirit regen nerf that is bothering me to be honest. That's just a part of the deal, and if it was the only nerf I'd grudgingly live it down. But it's the complete elimination of control from the healer that is truly bothering me. Post 3.1, there is just no way for a holy priest to actually manage his own mana. FSR dancing is dead. Clearcasting is dead. Precise proccing of serendipity is dead (good riddance). FSR breaks is dead. Jury is still out on whether spirit is dead, but it's not looking good.

    Now you spend mana mitigating damage until you are oom, and then you lose, powerless to do any difference. Just like a shaman. Game over. Replenishment will determine whether you run oom in 3 or 4 minutes. No skillful play will make you last significantly longer, your total mana bar and regen will enable you to heal X damage, and once that is done, you can /sit and /giggle and /cheer while the raid dies.
    Alot how i feel.

    I think there was a mana issue, but i don't really agree with the changes they are proposing.

    I loved the added challenge of maximizing my mana with clearcasting, serendipity, and FSR. Blizz will ultimately make sure that we have enough mana to sustain fights or there will be no priests in raids anymore. We will have to think about heals and which heals to use, but i already do this and so do good priests. IMO its kinda sad if it boils down to over an X minute fight you have X mana. I don't think we should have infinite mana, but I also feel that players who wisely use(d) tactics like clearcasting, serendipity, and FSR dancing should be rewarded. With the way things are looking now theirs not gonna be much besides gear that separates healers.

    On a QQ note it feels like most of the mana nerfs are directed mainly to Priests, although others will feel them i think priests who use tactics like me will feel them the worst. Spirit nerf mainly effects druids innervate and FSR dancers. To my recollection other classes "clearcast procs" are still there.


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&cn=Ap%C3%A1che

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Re: Mana Regen :(

    All Classes can have 50%+ mana regen while casting now. Mages can get 100% lol. but I mean with the Spirit buff being for all priests it helps a little too.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  10. #10

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Result: Paladins are now excessively superior to all other healers. The paladins nerfs to mana is not a showstopper for them. No paladin is worried about running oom. They are worried about the divine plea -50% healing done will make them bad tank healers while the effect is up.
    Paladins are worried about Uldar gear all being terrible
    If they're changing it to a less spammy cycle that just boosts Pally regen

  11. #11

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Problem is, it's not going to work to make healing less spammy. As long as paladins can still spam major single target heals at anything that moves, all other healers must follow, albeit slightly behind. Otherwise, why use anything but paladins? A priest carefully timing a Prayer of Healing four times a minute vs a paladin who simply spams 13k holy light crits at anything that moves, at 0.9sec intervals? Give me the paladin please. Double up that notion when you know that the paladin will finish 20 minutes later with a full manabar, the priest being oom in 2 minutes.
    this of course is already the reason most hardcore raiders don't think Disc is worth keeping around. A pally can do the same job way better.
    So why are Priests there at all? CoH. and maybe PoM. with PoH now also being a go to spell

    the reality is that most people are obsessed with meters not raid makeup. Pallies should be huge on the meters. If they can keep thier heals onthe tank and still spread them round great - but that is a pally job. MT healer and thats all. Priests are being pigeon holed as AoE healers alongside Shaman. In that role they may risk running out of mana. And as a consequence should not be looking at meters but should concentrate on specific required targets.

    This argument is the rogue Vs Hybrid arguement. Pallies are the rogue of healers - they are taken to do a specific job. And so if you want to bring all pallies go for it. But some fights will still require more than just single target healers. And I haven't found there are so many Shaman and Pally healers around that you can bump priests on a whim.

    Priests are going to struggle with mana. But as compensation we will have an improved CoH and PoH and will actually be required to think before spamming. I for one won't be rolling a pally any time soon. And this is from a guy who thought the grass was greener and went off to play his druid for a couple of months. Funny thing - grass is green or green. There is no greener...

  12. #12

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground
    All Classes can have 50%+ mana regen while casting now. Mages can get 100% lol. but I mean with the Spirit buff being for all priests it helps a little too.
    Excuse me if im not gona jump for joy over 16 spirit. Ya it saves me a scroll, but will cost me that much in another reagent.


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&cn=Ap%C3%A1che

  13. #13

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitond
    Excuse me if im not gona jump for joy over 16 spirit. Ya it saves me a scroll, but will cost me that much in another reagent.
    16 + Spirit of Redemption + Kings = 18.48![/color]
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  14. #14

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Quote Originally Posted by mutantboy
    this of course is already the reason most hardcore raiders don't think Disc is worth keeping around. A pally can do the same job way better.
    You're kidding right? A disc priest can heal for much longer than a pally when the target is actually taking dmg. I sit at 25k mana raid buffed as disc and can heal a full 25 man naxx with the lowest I ever get on mana is when I touch the slime in Construct Wing.
    I am always one of the lowest on the meters, but the tank never ever dies.

    Tell me the other class that can effectively give a tank another 5-7k health on top of their total hp pool? Disc's shields are insane. Having 40k health and than gettin shielded for 5k is just like having 45k health. Who else can do that?

    Every serious guild may not bring a disc priest, but every serious guild knows how good they are when it comes to single target healing.

  15. #15

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    Quote Originally Posted by rikken
    Tell me the other class that can effectively give a tank another 5-7k health on top of their total hp pool? Disc's shields are insane. Having 40k health and than gettin shielded for 5k is just like having 45k health. Who else can do that?
    Between 6k shield (2118 spell power) and 7k shield (2780 spell power). ^^

    Those shields are THE power of a disc priest, together with Divine Aegis.

    I admit though, the HPS might just be lower than with a paladin but shields take care of that .

  16. #16

    Re: Mana Regen :(

    I have a very geared disc priest and a okay geared holy pal

    Healing as holy pal is a joke, doing OS25 at 95% max mana in all the fight, spamming 300 flash of light that crit giving me 60% mana back is a joke.


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