1. #1

    The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    I consider myself being a rather decent player, having played various classes since pre tbc, and all quite successfull.
    Recently I've rerolled a shadowpriest, and I'd like some advice on how to improve on both rotations (priorities) and stat upgrades.

    For a starters I can link my armory:
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...est&n=Pewpants

    First question, how should I prioritise my stats. For now I'm trying to get a hold of the hit trinket from heroic VH, giving I would need around 10% hit (excluded talents). Suggestions on gear upgrades are welcome as well.
    As far as I've been able to read, I need to stack up on hit, more or less till I gain cap. For clarification, I havent been 80 for more than a few hours, hence the missing enchants, most of which should be fixed later today.
    But even when I get the trinket, I'll still be around 3% from hitting the cap, and I have a hard time finding out where to find the hit upgrades, without being lucky with drops in naxx ect. Suggestions are most welcome.

    Now regarding rotations, how do you guys do it?
    My priority is keeping up every dot I have, VE, VT, DP ect, and use MB every time it's ready, prioritizing MB over everything but VT, using MF time to refresh VE/DP. But this is only during singletarget, where I can keep a 'decent' dps of 2500-3300 regarding of group and encounter.
    On AoE packs/trash packs I'm in doubt on how to max dps. Do you guys just MS every pack and hope for the best? And switch to SWP/MB/MF when mobs goes to less than 3?
    Do you use macros?

    Basically, I just want to know whats worth knowing about playing a shadowpriest, mostly though about the things I've stated here.

    Thanks in advance, Pewpants

  2. #2
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    as for gear, work on replacing the mp5 items (when you come to the chance) as they are hardly important. the max hit you will need with that spec is 11%, as you get 3% from misery and 3% from shadow focus. just mind sear on any aoe pulls as long as there are more than 3 mobs. dps during trash doesnt matter

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  3. #3

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Basically, this is the priority list for SP's (imo o,o)

    1. If Mind Blast is not on cooldown, cast it!
    2. If Vampiric Touch is about 1.5 sec (depends on haste o,o) away from fading, re-cast it.
    3. If Devouring Plague faded, re-cast it!
    4. If both dots have time on the target and Mind Blast is on cooldown, cast Mind Flay!

    If mobs >= 3 - Cast Mind Sear.
    If Shadow Weaving = 5(for the first time), cast Shadow Word: Pain.

  4. #4

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll
    as for gear, work on replacing the mp5 items (when you come to the chance) as they are hardly important. the max hit you will need with that spec is 11%, as you get 3% from misery and 3% from shadow focus. just mind sear on any aoe pulls as long as there are more than 3 mobs. dps during trash doesnt matter
    Yeah, I'll try to change the mp5 items asap. But as you might see on some of my gear, I havent had too long time at 80, so this is what could be gathered at my first run. I'll prioritize hit items over anything else atm when going for new items.

  5. #5

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanec
    Basically, this is the priority list for SP's (imo o,o)

    1. If Mind Blast is not on cooldown, cast it!
    2. If Vampiric Touch is about 1.5 sec (depends on haste o,o) away from fading, re-cast it.
    3. If Devouring Plague faded, re-cast it!
    4. If both dots have time on the target and Mind Blast is on cooldown, cast Mind Flay!

    If mobs >= 3 - Cast Mind Sear.
    If Shadow Weaving = 5(for the first time), cast Shadow Word: Pain.
    Exactly what Sanec said. Using a mod like EventHorizon is much recommended, as it trivializes timing these things. Also, learning to clip your Mind Flay after a certain tick in order to do an action higher in this priority list is a good practice to get into.

    Basically, get hit capped and practice, practice, practice. A good goal to set for yourself is to be able to do 2500 DPS versus the Heroic Training Dummy using only your own buffs and debuffs on it. The cap for current gear is just shy of 3000 DPS on the Dummy. Of course this number just about doubles in an optimal 25 man raid setup, but it's a good benchmark for yourself.

  6. #6

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewarrows
    Also, learning to clip your Mind Flay after a certain tick in order to do an action higher in this priority list is a good practice to get into.
    dont clip. its bad. if you're in a 1-2 second-hole, cast sw:d.

    www.shadowpriest.com < should answer most of your questions

  7. #7

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Shadowpriests have no cycle whatsoever, but instead use their ability based on a priority system. There are a few non-intuitive mechanics that affect shadowpriests that will probably get changed in the future, but for now, make sure you are aware of them.

    SW: P should only get casted once per boss fight, and % damage increase due to crit/vulnerabilities on the mob is only determined upon the initial cast. If you open up on boss fights with shadow word pain before winter's chill/shadow vulnerability/earth and moon are up, you are costing yourself a lot of DPS. The traditional opening sequence is something like Vampiric Touch, Devouring Plague, Mindblast, Shadow Word: Death, Shadow Word Pain - since at this point all the debuffs should be stacked on the boss.

    On use + crit trinkets should be used prior to casting Shadow Word Pain as well.

    After you have gotten all your dots on the boss, play as follows:
    1 Refresh VT as priority number 1
    2 Refresh Devouring Plague as priority number 2
    3 Mindblast if 1 and 2 are done
    4 Mindflay is 1, 2 are done and Mindblast is on cool-down
    5 Shadow Word Death if you need to refresh a dot in ~2 seconds and mindblast is on cooldown. Shadow Word Death is almost never worth using except when opening, since it causes two shadow vulnerabilities when building up your stack.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by Shynx
    dont clip. its bad. if you're in a 1-2 second-hole, cast sw:d.
    Don't use SWD in such a situation, it's bad. in 2 seconds, 2 ticks of mindflay will do way more damage than a single SWD could do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steldemian
    After you have gotten all your dots on the boss, play as follows:
    1 Refresh VT as priority number 1
    2 Refresh Devouring Plague as priority number 2
    3 Mindblast if 1 and 2 are done
    4 Mindflay is 1, 2 are done and Mindblast is on cool-down
    5 Shadow Word Death if you need to refresh a dot in ~2 seconds and mindblast is on cooldown. Shadow Word Death is almost never worth using except when opening, since it causes two shadow vulnerabilities when building up your stack.
    This is true but 5. Also, they fixed SWD giving 2 shadow weaving stacks with 3.0.9 so Mindflay is 90% of the time a better spell to cast.
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  9. #9

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    Don't use SWD in such a situation, it's bad. in 2 seconds, 2 ticks of mindflay will do way more damage than a single SWD could do.
    This is somewhat misleading...

    1. Simulationcraft still lists SWD in the rotation is more dps than no SWD. People still state that SWD lowers your dps but as far as theroycraft is concerned, this is totally incorrect. I don't suggest you should cast SWD every 12sec but there are situations when you should cast SWD, when you have 1 GCD's worth of time left b4 your MB comes off CD and 0 dots to refresh, this is one of those times.

    2. While I agree that over time 2 ticks of MF is > than SWD you are not factoring in the that you are delaying your next MB by doing so. Assuming 0 haste (for ease) 2 ticks of MF will take 2 seconds in comparison to SWD taking 1.5 seconds. This delays your MB by 0.5sec and for that reason SWD is the better option.

    3. If you have very good gear this doesnt exactly apply but SWD is a high DPM spell and has the ability to proc IST. When you have beginners gear SWD is a good spell to cast due to its mana effeciency. You don't start as having infinite mana... as your gear gets better you can cast it less but if you have bun gear and are going oom consider SWD as a way to extend your mana pool.


    Some other advice I would give the person who posted this... atm MF applies 2 stacks of Shadow Weaving... I start every boss encounter by casting fade as the tank pulls, then I cast MF twice (clipping at 2 ticks each time) then cast VT... when VT lands I have the full 5 stacks of shadow weaving for my DP and SW:P... and having 5 stacks is particularly important for SW:P as you will never cast this spell again (if all goes well).

    Also, ensure you do not cast SW:P until you have gotten the full stacks of imp scorch/winter's chill... if your raid is particularly bad at getting those to full stacks quickly it may be wise to cast SW:P early and recast it... you dont want to wait for full stacks that take 1 min to build up.

    In addition learn to recast SW:P when other buffs become available... MF will not refresh malygos sparks, loatheb crit buff, thaddius charge stacks... be sure to recast SW:P for those types of buffs, you only need to cast it once more then your MF will refresh this buff for the entire duration of the fight.

    It's also worth delaying DP to get those buffs due to it being a 24 sec dot... if a maly spark is 2 secs away, delay DP by 2sec and get the buff for it... same with thaddius, don't recast your dots until you get your stacks.

    Fade is an awesome spell now... be sure to cast fade preemptively to set your threat to 0 when it makes sense to. If you are aoeing a pack of mobs and a 2nd pack add, press fade so you don't pull those adds to u immediately. If you come out of vortex and you are the top threat target press fade because there is no threat threshold comming out of vortex. I can't stress enough how good fade is now, learn to use it effectively.

    In terms of gearing, following the gear list/stat priorites at www.shadowpriest.com i'd just say don't be too afraid being a little below the hit cap, sure aim to be at the hit cap but if you get an item that has significantly more sp than the hit piece you're using it may very well be better to use. Missing 1% hit means 1 in 100 spells miss... you can be better off hitting harder for the other 99 spells you will cast instead of hitting 100 times at lower damage.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    1. Simulationcraft still lists SWD in the rotation is more dps than no SWD. People still state that SWD lowers your dps but as far as theroycraft is concerned, this is totally incorrect. I don't suggest you should cast SWD every 12sec but there are situations when you should cast SWD, when you have 1 GCD's worth of time left b4 your MB comes off CD and 0 dots to refresh, this is one of those times.

    2. While I agree that over time 2 ticks of MF is > than SWD you are not factoring in the that you are delaying your next MB by doing so. Assuming 0 haste (for ease) 2 ticks of MF will take 2 seconds in comparison to SWD taking 1.5 seconds. This delays your MB by 0.5sec and for that reason SWD is the better option.
    True to an extent. I was talking about endgame while you are talking about progression. I would assume 10% haste which is the sweet spot for 2 Mindflays between Mindblasts.

    3. If you have very good gear this doesnt exactly apply but SWD is a high DPM spell and has the ability to proc IST. When you have beginners gear SWD is a good spell to cast due to its mana effeciency. You don't start as having infinite mana... as your gear gets better you can cast it less but if you have bun gear and are going oom consider SWD as a way to extend your mana pool.
    True.

    Some other advice I would give the person who posted this... atm MF applies 2 stacks of Shadow Weaving... I start every boss encounter by casting fade as the tank pulls, then I cast MF twice (clipping at 2 ticks each time) then cast VT... when VT lands I have the full 5 stacks of shadow weaving for my DP and SW:P... and having 5 stacks is particularly important for SW:P as you will never cast this spell again (if all goes well).
    MF applies 2 stacks now? Never really looked at it but I'll try that out today.

    In terms of gearing, following the gear list/stat priorites at www.shadowpriest.com i'd just say don't be too afraid being a little below the hit cap, sure aim to be at the hit cap but if you get an item that has significantly more sp than the hit piece you're using it may very well be better to use. Missing 1% hit means 1 in 100 spells miss... you can be better off hitting harder for the other 99 spells you will cast instead of hitting 100 times at lower damage.
    I'd go easy on that statement. Yeah, generally missing a mindflay or mindblast won't hurt you THAT much. But then comes the time when your devouring plague misses, and that REALLY hurts your DPS. Every miss does indeed. And I'd say ~10 spellpower isn't worth the chance to miss.

    I have the same problem now. I still run with the wand of the nerubians (18 hit) and got surplus limb yesterday (0 hit). It has around 10 spellpower more but I won't use it because it will put mit at 276 hit which is not enough for me.
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  11. #11

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    You only need to look at the theorycraft numbers accross all dps classes to see that hit is no longer as powerful as it was in classic and tbc. Str for example can be almost as twice as good as hit for some of the melee classes which was never the case b4 LK.

    For spriests hit is still the best stat but it's only weighted at 1.16 to 1 sp which in all honnest isn't a lot. I know for example hit is a much more crucial stat for boomkins due to the cast time of their spells, in most cases missing as a spriest only costs you the mana & GCD.

    Thats not to say you shouldn't aim for the hit cap but you shouldn't forgo 100sp just to get 1% hit either. So there is a point where increases sp is better than being hit capped... that was never the case but with how things are playing in LK you can increase your dps just by stacking raw dps stats like never before.

    And just to contradict myself a little... hit does turn out to be a rather effecient stat to gain. In a lot of cases, gear that has substantial hit on it is somewhat close to the best in slot item (that doesnt include hit). For that reason you should aim to get it, so don't misinterpret what i'm saying. I'm just saying don't keep that lvl 187 blue with hit on it if you end up with a 226 item with no hit (in most cases it will increase your dps, even with occasional misses).

  12. #12

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    The only place you should really be using Shadow Word: Death is if you are moving and have nothing else to cast. Mind Flay is cheaper and does the same if not more damage.
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  13. #13

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Thanks for all the answers guys, it seems I'm not as far off on the rotations and so on as I thought.

    A few questions though with all this talk about hit. What is the hitcap? Is it 16% or 17%? I see most priests running around with just around 10% hit, so I'm gussing it's 17%, and they're calculating 3% from misery and 3% from shadow focus, and the last 1% from dranei racial. How does this stack with imp ff ect? Does that mean that with a boomkin in the raid, I would be able to hit the cap with 7% hit?

    Kind regards.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by Aturia
    Thanks for all the answers guys, it seems I'm not as far off on the rotations and so on as I thought.

    A few questions though with all this talk about hit. What is the hitcap? Is it 16% or 17%? I see most priests running around with just around 10% hit, so I'm gussing it's 17%, and they're calculating 3% from misery and 3% from shadow focus, and the last 1% from dranei racial. How does this stack with imp ff ect? Does that mean that with a boomkin in the raid, I would be able to hit the cap with 7% hit?

    Kind regards.
    You're right. Hitcap for spells is 17% which means horde shadowpriests need 17% while alliance needs 16% (damn spacegoats! but atleast the buff isn't raidwide and only in your party, right??). Misery gives 3% as does shadow focus.

    Misery (our +3% hit debuff) doesn't stack with imp. ff or anything else like that. And because Boomkins usually don't take imp. ff AFAIK it's usually only shadowpriests who provide the 3% hit debuff, because we gain something else from the talent anyway.
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  15. #15

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    I played a boss last night with no addons at all. it's a nightmare trying to refresh the DOTS and without quartz get the timing right.


  16. #16
    High Overlord bayi's Avatar
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    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by Aturia
    I consider myself being a rather decent player, having played various classes since pre tbc, and all quite successfull.
    Recently I've rerolled a shadowpriest, and I'd like some advice on how to improve on both rotations (priorities) and stat upgrades.

    For a starters I can link my armory:
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...est&n=Pewpants

    First question, how should I prioritise my stats. For now I'm trying to get a hold of the hit trinket from heroic VH, giving I would need around 10% hit (excluded talents). Suggestions on gear upgrades are welcome as well.
    As far as I've been able to read, I need to stack up on hit, more or less till I gain cap. For clarification, I havent been 80 for more than a few hours, hence the missing enchants, most of which should be fixed later today.
    But even when I get the trinket, I'll still be around 3% from hitting the cap, and I have a hard time finding out where to find the hit upgrades, without being lucky with drops in naxx ect. Suggestions are most welcome.
    Regarding Gear:
    1. Aim for hit cap which is 17% (~290 hit rating), if u have a dranei in ur group then 16%
    2. Spell power > haste > crit are our stats priority

    A good source for gear upgrade decisions : http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=16992

    I dont know if there are any ingame addons that could help u with that... i just hacked RatingBuster so it shows me the Pseudo Spell Power and Pseudo SP with Hit so its a lot easier to compare two items ingame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aturia
    Now regarding rotations, how do you guys do it?
    My priority is keeping up every dot I have, VE, VT, DP ect, and use MB every time it's ready, prioritizing MB over everything but VT, using MF time to refresh VE/DP. But this is only during singletarget, where I can keep a 'decent' dps of 2500-3300 regarding of group and encounter.
    On AoE packs/trash packs I'm in doubt on how to max dps. Do you guys just MS every pack and hope for the best? And switch to SWP/MB/MF when mobs goes to less than 3?
    Do you use macros?

    Basically, I just want to know whats worth knowing about playing a shadowpriest, mostly though about the things I've stated here.

    Thanks in advance, Pewpants
    My priority is VT>DP>MB then MF as filler and if i have 1,5 - 2s spare time i just use a SW , as other stated this is a good priority list and u should go with it

    As SW was bugged and applied 2 Shadow Weaving i used it as a starter now its only realy use is a filler, dont put it in ur priority list

    Tip: Pain is refreshed by MF and its damage coeficients are recalculated on every refresh BUT shadow weaving NOT !!! so its worth it to recast pain if u haver ur 5 stacks
    (Source: http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17019 )


    as for aoe:
    Yea, mind shear is not realy effective if there are less than 3 mobs, im just dotting then everything i can and nuke a target i choose.
    There is a nice tip here for aoe too ( too bad it gets fixed in 3.1 but until then u can use it ); if u have a DK in ur raid try to focus his target and put DP on it, then start to cast MS, the DK will spread out ur DP for a nice additional aoe DPS ^^

    on http://shadowpriest.com are good therycraft topics in all topics its a good reading for all shadowpriest

    i hope i could help u.
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  17. #17

    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by bayi
    Tip: Pain is refreshed by MF and its damage coeficients are recalculated on every refresh BUT shadow weaving NOT !!! so its worth it to recast pain if u haver ur 5 stacks
    (Source: http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17019 )
    So if a Trinket procs, or I am gaining a new buff/debuff/aura or whatever (exept SW), I don't have to recast it? I allways hoped it because I am to lazy to do it, but there are so many different statements out there.

  18. #18
    High Overlord bayi's Avatar
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    Re: The basics of being a shadowpriest, help me out here

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain
    So if a Trinket procs, or I am gaining a new buff/debuff/aura or whatever (exept SW), I don't have to recast it? I allways hoped it because I am to lazy to do it, but there are so many different statements out there.
    actually, yes:

    from shadowpriest.com:
    * When SWP gets refreshed via P&S, it recalculates spellpower enhancing buffs, but not Shadow Weaving. The latter means that it's reasonable to wait for 5 stacks of weaving and only then cast SWP, so that it won't be sub-par for the entire fight.
    so this is only for MF refreshing it,

    but if ur trinket proc and u are not casting MF the entire duration (can this happen? ) of the proc buff then it isnt applied to it...
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