Hardcore haters ulduar and nerdrage

[Bartikowski]

Everybody "deserves" to see all the content.

This kind of thought process is going to ruin this game from the top-down.

[shadet]

Errm.. Sorry but did you run any heroics other than MGT? lol

I'm guessing you just mistyped what you were trying to say because every last boss in TBC heroics dropped Epix, however MGT was the only instance to give epic loot on EVERY boss kill in a heroic and on the final boss in the NORMAL mode!

[Darshana]

I agree with the OP. Back in TBC I worked too much and was always busy so I missed ALL the raiding content. I had enough time for the raids but I had no time to farm heroics for the entry level gear and I had no time to farm gold for pots and extremely expensive crafted items. In WOTLK I can play all the content and never get left out, I ended up quitting half way through TBC so Blizzard have indeed catered for my kind if they didn't they'd have lost a lot of players. So I doubt they're going to give you back those raids where you had to wipe all night to kill 1 boss and some trash. Nowadays though since the recession hit I got too much time for this frigging game lol.

[shadet]

I bought GTA Vice city a while back. I really couldn't be bothered doing all the quests to open up the 2nd and 3rd sections... Personally I think the makers of GTA should open up those sections for me because I deserve to see as much of the game as everyone else who bought it.. I pay my money!!

[Slim_Jim]

Only thing I've noticed about the game leaning more towards "casual" content is:

+ Making money is damn easy. Atm Im only doing Frenzyheart dailies every day + JC daily and still I end up having around 1k money in my pocket when the week ends (and still I see some people QQ about being broke all the time, it's more like l2p issue).

+ Instances are rather quick.

+ Heroics are easy (well this isnt too good, those are TOO easy now, in TBC there were rather hard instances and rather easy in equal measure).

+ Farming for elixirs / flasks / whatev doesnt require anymore 8h grind per day. I remember back in vanilla to completely despair with gathering all the required mats for naxx raids -_-

+ There's more things to do than ever before.

+ Now since Im "adult" and I have to work my arse off to pay my appartment and bills and that 50" lcd telly and whatever else, Im glad that I dont have to spend ~8h every night in raids for hopes to have any progression.

I dont like every point in the whole "casual gaming" thing, but giving everybody a chance to see the whole content is really good idea, it's not all just about beating Arthas / whoever and pwning lewtz, but also to see all the lore and story involved in it.

But then, demands of almost HANDING IN epics and legendary weapons are too absurd and that pointless QQ about "not getting as good stuff in 10mans than 25mans is unfair", just is mindboggling.

But guess that's the mantra of the times we live in, everything needs to be easy, chewed ready nicely and ppl demand rights for themselves and freedom of responsibilities.

Guess in next expansion people just level straight to 90 by doing 1 quest in 1 starting area and then walk to plough through content with lvl80 epics still on.

[Baever]

"Most of whom never had a chance to finish a raid. They didn't get to see some of the best art in the game, hear the unique music or voice over, or in many cases even see the villian at the end of their quest line. From a production POV, instances are very expensive. It seems an odd choice to lavish all that attention on such a tiny percent of the player base.

At the same time, we know there are players who love a challenge and are willing to do almost anything to beat a raid-destroying boss provided they also have a shot at the best loot. They don't want the instances to be over too soon. They like banging their head against the wall.

And so hard modes were born. We tested the water a little with Obsidian Sanctum. We're going full bore with Ulduar."

Blue post. 'nuff said

Everybody "deserves" to see all the content. If you like to bang your head against a wall, there are hardmodes. If you are a person who thinks some people "do not deserve" to see it all, you are just sad.

"you" is not directed at any special poster of reply here. "You" know if you are "you" ^^

I sometimes get the feeling I'm arguing with toddlers and those of special need.

Nobody cares about entitlement or whether or not everyone experiences content. They care about intentionally diminishing the skill level of a game because a majority of players still have little to no knowledge of basic game mechanics. I know people who raided all of TBC, and still continued to move during Flame Wreath.

I honestly feel insulted by Blizzard with what they've done with WoTLK. They're indirectly saying that my I.Q. is lower than that of what I had four years ago by making a game that reflects that, but please, continue to bicker amongst yourselves. You do nothing but prove my point.

[RestoRiven]

I was never hardcore, never been in a server first guild. And I am bored out of my mind!

My guild (and I) are not interested in the current hardmodes. After we got vanquisher title we only clear two drakes now. WHY? Gear and time. We get every available 25man gear drop every tuesday. Then respec or do whatever for the rest of the week. I have a chopper, a tundra mount. And more gold than I know what to do with. Not to mention Half a guildbank tab full of scarlet ruby stacks waiting to sell in 3.1

You all don't understand. Raiding has NEVER been like this in WoW. There was always the next big raid to gear up and aspire to.

Never forget the time this non-guildie ran ZG with us in vanilla. He said "you guys are pretty good, I'm the RL for this MC guild" we're like WOW! So he brings us into his guild. After a while we're like WOW BWL! WOW AQ40! WOW NAXX!

Aspiring to get into the next raid has always been WoW for me. That's just gone, in it's place is "best in slot". I'm sorry but that notion was always a raid away. Now all my buddys alts are grabbing KT weapons. Thats just insane.

[khanthal]

Nobody cares about entitlement or whether or not everyone experiences content. They care about intentionally diminishing the skill level of a game because a majority of players still have little to no knowledge of basic game mechanics. I know people who raided all of TBC, and still continued to move during Flame Wreath.

You are actually completely wrong here. I see entitlement posts from hardcores just as much or MORE often than ease posts.

There is a huge section of the hardcore crowd that doesn't believe anyone but seriously hardcore people should even see the icecrown raid. They think it should be like BT was when it first came out...if you aren't hardcore, you wipe first few trash pulls.

Piles of them as well don't think there should be a icecrown 10 man at all.

[cestrs]

Not that I'm arguing but I would like to point out that heroics and kara pugs were wearing sunwell gear through badges. Epic s1 and s2 gear were given out as candy to players who afk BG's and/or paid a few to carry them to a 2000 rating team. But lets not forget that in TBC the only heroic to give epic loot on the last boss was MGT at the end of TBC. I would bet money if TBC had the same loot system where the last boss dropped epics you would have seen tons of epic players.

that really isn't true though. all the final bosses in all TBC heroics dropped an epic. i guess you didn't actually do those heroics?

the pvp gear being cheap arguement is void as well. while it might have been true, it has nothing to do with TBC pve and hardcore difficulty.

also sunwell gear and badge gear were very different (ilvl and looks wise). the latest TBC badge gear was actually on BT/MH level. so yeah, think again.


other then that this whole discussion is a bit pointless. im a hardcore player and i honestly dont mind if people see all the content as long as they put "some" effort into it. what i do mind is the lack of any true endgame instance at this point. okay, blizz wants everyone to see naxx and that is fine. why not make sarth and malygos harder then, so you won't be able to clear it with a 20 man pug? and nerf it in the next patch when you put another tier in, so everyone can actually see it. hard-modes are an awkward way of doing this and i honestly dislike it very much. though ive learned to accept it. it's the same as instance heroics, while there really isn't anything heroic about them. the casuals i talk to don't like where this game is going as well (mind you though they are decent players generally).


there really is no need to cry about this though. the way this game is gonna go is very obvious and if you don't like it, you're free to leave.

[Baever]

...if you aren't hardcore, you wipe first few trash pulls.

Piles of them as well don't think there should be a icecrown 10 man at all.

I hate to be knit picky, but wiping on trash pulls has nothing to do with being hardcore so much as knowing the method of execution.

I also don't know what MMO-Champion you've been trolling, but in the months since I've taken my (probably) permanent WoW-hiatus, I see thrice the complaints on ease than I do entitlement, which was more of an issue before WoTLK's launch (before we really knew how ridiculously under-toned the raid instances were).

As for Icecrown, indeed quite a few people see a problem with making Arthas doable via ten man. However, this is largely based off his importance as a central figure in World of Warcraft lore, not his position as the last boss in the expansion.

[Baever]

that really isn't true though. all the final bosses in all TBC heroics dropped an epic. i guess you didn't actually do those heroics?

Pretty sure he meant only regular 70 instance to have an epic drop off the last boss.

[RoseRed]

You assume too much. It is very and easily possible to raid with a 'casual' guild and see all content. Oh and btw, sunwell is still there, and is easily puggable with 15-20 people in 1-2 hours.

how is that the same? where is the satisfaction? when someone wants to see the content it's a figure of speach (look that up), it means wants to be a part of, during the time everyone else is a part of, and not join MC raids only when people were doing sunwell :/ to play yesterdays raids is just sad compared to what they just released.

If I don't put any time or effort into getting a job, then NO I don't deserve one. I don't think you thought about this too much.

Another way of looking into this, if you do not put more then 80 hours a week or what not you don't deserve to live under a roof, enjoy warm water, eat at least 1 meal a day, and have a change of clothese like all the others that are forced to do so.

You say this, but then your post does the complete opposite, arguing from the point of hardcore's having no lifes, and assuming they don't want you to see the content simply because they have no life other than wow.

Well Hardcores in most cases don't have much of a life outside WoW, why on earth do you argue about that? I know I didn't have a life at all outside WoW back in Vanilla, I never really noticed or cared and got offended when people did point it out, but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to enjoy life the way you want to. I guess thats a better way of looking at it. There is nothing wrong (and if anything we encourage) for Hardcore players to enjoy themselves outside of Azeroth more often, whether by work/school or plain ole fun. So why not encourage those who actually find their enjoyments of their everyday lives playing WoW to it's potentiol?

Who knows, maybe one day when you realize WoW is the time filler in real life and not lifes priority you may want to utilize it that way, but if things go back to how vanilla was...how much fun do you think you'll be having?

[cestrs]

Pretty sure he meant only regular 70 instance to have an epic drop off the last boss.

i don't think he did, because as i understand it, he said that unlike in TBC, epics are easily obtainable in wotlk heroics, and that there is a difference in loot system. while there really is no difference, it is exactly the same.

[RoseRed]

i don't think he did, because as i understand it, he said that unlike in TBC, epics are easily obtainable in wotlk heroics, and that there is a difference in loot system. while there really is no difference, it is exactly the same.

Think he got confused

Epics dropped off all HC final bosses in TBC, but dropped off ALL bosses in MGT HC

Having said that, I do think they should always release actual hard heroics in the game like MGT (I had respect for that instance and it really showed the good the bad and the ugly players).

Although theres nothing wrong with the damn easy heroics that you can pick up some badges with your eyes closed, but a few actual hard and creative ones like MGT should be introduced, which will then slowly allow Blizzard to create more challanging encounters for raids, it would also allow people to find better players for more diffecult raids pug wise.

Everything starts from the root

[Jummer]

I just cant understand why we casual players demand easy raids.

The real casual raids 10man could be made easier, 25man I wouldnt mind seeing made harder. Let hardmodes stay and have 2-3 gearcheck bosses up, those are the more fun part. I do miss the time when I was focused on what to do on the bosses more then wondering if the gear I want gonna drop the whole fight.

Btw, what is going to happen to heroics? After first week at 80 they were just there for the achievements.

Who cares if hardcore guilds clears it all the first week, its when casual guilds finds it easy it's really easy.

[cestrs]

I just cant understand why we casual players demand easy raids.

The real casual raids 10man could be made easier, 25man I wouldnt mind seeing made harder. Let hardmodes stay and have 2-3 gearcheck bosses up, those are the more fun part. I do miss the time when I was focused on what to do on the bosses more then wondering if the gear I want gonna drop the whole fight.

Btw, what is going to happen to heroics? After first week at 80 they were just there for the achievements.

Who cares if hardcore guilds clears it all the first week, its when casual guilds finds it easy it's really easy.

yeah, god forbid you'D have to focus on trash! nah, let's just aoe two or three packs and see where that goes ...

i agree with you.

[charbelcher]

My post was unclear sorry about that. I meant to say that normal MGT gave a epic and the heroic version gave 4 epics.

[Trest]

Firstly pointing out I am no hardcore player, raiding 2-3nights a week.
If you think casuals deserve to get as much as hardcores, just because they like the game just as much, then do this.
Go to your full time job employer and ask him for the same salary as "Pete" over there that works 10hours more than you a week.
Hell you like the work just as much as he do, right?

It is natural to me that if you put more effort into something you will get more out of it.

[RestoRiven]

Also I'm worried that folks have "forgotten" how to raid a hard instance. The ease of Naxx is going to shock the hell out of some facerolling DPSers when they're eating dirt.

Sheep, sap, focused fire, target icons, kill orders, wow all that stuff comes back and theres going to be guilds dropping like flies. I'd imagine plenty of /gkicks too.

So if Naxx is "raiding 101" why didn't it teach any of that? Oh I get it, first lesson, PHAT EPIX.

[Baever]

From the "blue" I quoted, Blizzard seems to care. I think posting continously and sticking with the game, you care too.

I actually have not played since January, I post to keep my vocabulary current between term papers.

That aside, it's been quite sometime since I've taken any Blizzard poster seriously. For the last four years, Blizzard decided that the previous formula for creating raid content was perfectly manageable, then abruptly changed their minds come WoTLK. Same can be said for any number of talents or skills which they originally deemed balanced, even after extensive testing, but nerfed into oblivion at the cry of public outrage.

Blizzard may be a company, but it's composed of real people, as daunting and seemingly soul-less some CEO's and company executives may be. And as is human nature, interests change and what seemed a good idea one day, is tomorrow's mistake.