Are DK's too easy to play well?

[Garric]

I had an interesting night last night with my DK. I hit 80 around 6pm, equipped my shiny new Titansteel Crusher or whatever its called and hit UK HC. My dps was where i expected it to be, which is around the 2k mark - comparable with the boomkin i was teamed with, but the hunter was off in the distance as to be expected.

Immediately after i joined a pug OS 25. I fully expected to be bottom half of the dps charts, maybe averaging 2.5k for the raid based on my gear. I was wrong. After the first trash pull i was top with over 4k dps. I know what you're thinking cos i was thinking the same - ah its just meaningless trash, you'll slump on the single target boss fight. My dps on Vesp was around 3.5k, the boss at the back around 4k and the boss on the right around 3k. Seriously, wtf? Where had all this dps come from, i wasn't doing anything differently than the heroic. On Sarth i think i was 3rd with 3.5k dps, but overall i was top of the charts.

I realise this all sounds like me publicly stroking my epeen and to be honest, to a certain extent it is and also i realise piccies or it didn't happen so it's all anecdotal evidence. But the apart from the nonsense of a brand new 80 dk topping dps charts in a 25 peep raid is the fact that the top 4 dps and 5 out of the top 6 we're also dk's. So i come back to my original question, are DK's too easy to play well or just overpowered in general? Or quite simply did i manage to find the one pug where everyone else was a worse player than me?? :P

[Ryzal]

I simply do not believe you. So that makes me think that dk's are not too easy to play well, right?

[Rianabi]

The encounters you mention are almost all AoE fights, wich makes it very easy to top dps as a DK, on some pulls in naxx i've gotten upwards of 12k DPS on some packs (as DW 31/40, no bugged DRW)

As far as dps rotations go DKs are defenitely among the harder classes, feral druids are the hardest by far and affliction locks are quite tricky aswell, but compared to most 1-2 button spam classes it aint the easiest class exactly to min/max.

Try some single target only fights that last over 3-4min and compete against proper geared people and you should see quite a gap, pugs are horrible for e-peen stroking when you consider the general terribad WoW players.

*edit* and oh, did you check DPS for only the bosses or was there left over damage from the trash? with all that AoE it can inflate the numbers quite alot... but then again there are whelps with one of the dragon and loads of adds on sartharion himself so doesent mean much i guess, DK AoE is quite imba if you do it properly.

[atf]

Link your armory. Then we can confirm/debunk your story.


I was in a OS 25 pug last night with a mage doing 1.4k dps.

[lockos]

I had an interesting night last night with my DK. I hit 80 around 6pm, equipped my shiny new Titansteel Crusher or whatever its called and hit UK HC. My dps was where i expected it to be, which is around the 2k mark - comparable with the boomkin i was teamed with, but the hunter was off in the distance as to be expected.

Immediately after i joined a pug OS 25. I fully expected to be bottom half of the dps charts, maybe averaging 2.5k for the raid based on my gear. I was wrong. After the first trash pull i was top with over 4k dps. I know what you're thinking cos i was thinking the same - ah its just meaningless trash, you'll slump on the single target boss fight. My dps on Vesp was around 3.5k, the boss at the back around 4k and the boss on the right around 3k. Seriously, wtf? Where had all this dps come from, i wasn't doing anything differently than the heroic. On Sarth i think i was 3rd with 3.5k dps, but overall i was top of the charts.

I realise this all sounds like me publicly stroking my epeen and to be honest, to a certain extent it is and also i realise piccies or it didn't happen so it's all anecdotal evidence. But the apart from the nonsense of a brand new 80 dk topping dps charts in a 25 peep raid is the fact that the top 4 dps and 5 out of the top 6 we're also dk's. So i come back to my original question, are DK's too easy to play well or just overpowered in general? Or quite simply did i manage to find the one pug where everyone else was a worse player than me?? :P

yes and when i hit lvl 80 i bought a betrayer of humanity from ah and i solo sartharion with 3 drakes on and all his trash ............ seriusly dks are not so easy to play but you are so idiot to believe you will make us tell wow look what this guy saying it is true dks are very easy............ GTFO

[Bullshifter]

Sartharion is a terrible instance for inflating our dps. You were 25 man raid buffed and in an artificially inflated by aoe environment. I normally pull around 4k on most bosses (sometimes up to around 4.7 or so-I've hit 5k once on Patch in our make quick werk of him achievement) in Naxx, but on Sarth it's not uncommon for me to hit 5.9-6.5k dps on the boss. Don't go by the numbers there.

[darkdestiny]

Damn I wasted 2mns of my life reading this thread :'(
Fight Patchwerk then tell us how well you did.

[Ranor]

Sartharion is a terrible instance for inflating our dps. You were 25 man raid buffed and in an artificially inflated by aoe environment. I normally pull around 4k on most bosses (sometimes up to around 4.7 or so-I've hit 5k once on Patch in our make quick werk of him achievement) in Naxx, but on Sarth it's not uncommon for me to hit 5.9-6.5k dps on the boss. Don't go by the numbers there.

This doesn't change the fact that DK's are too easy to play.. and do well as. xP

The rotations are extremely simple, and you can mash random buttons and likely hit 5k DPS with a decently geared DK on Patch. I mean... i've seen DK's macro entire rotations to a single button for both PvE and PvP and still come out on top.

It's disturbing to say the least.

[Oxid]

Dont ever go in a class forum saying the class is too easy to play or overpowered. All you will get is people telling you you are an idiot and you should DIAF.

For what I could see and Im not playing a DK, it looks relatively easy to do really well as a DK.

Not saying they are OP although Im tempted to.

[Gomexus]

1) I believe you.
2) It won't last long.

DK dps starts really high but it scales poory compared to other classes. I realize alot of the people in your 25m probably had good/better gear than you do...but they also probably suck.

It's not uncommon for me to top meters in dps gear and tank spec'd...granted there isn't much of a difference between tank and dps specs...but the fact remains that I should not be doing more dps than a T7.5 geared mage unless that mage sucks.

One of the biggest indicator's of this is that you were grouped with other DK's...it's a stretch to assume none of them had better gear than you since you admitted to being a fresh 80. If none of the other DK's could beat your dps...they sucked...and if no one could beat the dps of the sucky DK's...then they all suck as well.

Pugs are pugs...people are not giving it 100% for sure...and with the level of difficulty of the current content its hard to find a 25m group where everyone is giving 100%, unless you are going after some sort of timed achievement.

Lastly, take a look at your stats and find a T7.5 geared DK and compare stats. You'll find that the difference in AP/Crit is very small with expertise being the biggest jump (if you geared correctly leveling it should be that way). So all in all your dps from fresh 80 to geared 80 isn't going to take a big jump...you'll hit a little harder and get dodged less...but you won't see as much of an increase as a caster would...going from 1400SP as a fresh 80 to 2100SP as a geared 80 is a big jump...going from 3k AP to 3.8k AP isn't quite as big...especially with the way our abilities scale atm...

[Mucknip]

This doesn't change the fact that DK's are too easy to play.. and do well as. xP

The rotations are extremely simple, and you can mash random buttons and likely hit 5k DPS with a decently geared DK on Patch. I mean... i've seen DK's macro entire rotations to a single button for both PvE and PvP and still come out on top.

It's disturbing to say the least.

Ever played a HAT rogue?

[Ranor]

Ever played a HAT rogue?

Never said that wasn't easy, we're talking about DK's right now.

[Bullshifter]

This doesn't change the fact that DK's are too easy to play.. and do well as. xP

The rotations are extremely simple, and you can mash random buttons and likely hit 5k DPS with a decently geared DK on Patch. I mean... i've seen DK's macro entire rotations to a single button for both PvE and PvP and still come out on top.

It's disturbing to say the least.

That's such bullshit. It's easy to do "ok" as a DK if you suck, mainly because of the scaling Gome was talking about. It's not as easy to be "excellent" at it, and this is true of just about any class in the game. And there's no way that a castsequence tard is going to be doing competitive dps with competant dps'rs of other classes. Perhaps they will do better than other tards from other classes I guess. Our good damage is too dependant on "if then" like feral druids "rotations" are, for that to be truly competitive, unless you're end game geared and running the diseaseless blood spec.

When myself and my guild were fresh 80's and just entering Naxx and whatnot, I was destroying the other classes that were in the raids with me. Now that we're mostly all 25 man geared, I'm still doing fairly well in the rankings, but generally I settle out at around 3-7th depending on the fight. Occasionally I'll crack the top two but it's pretty rare for me to top damage meters now in guild runs (aside from Sarth, that's such a joke). I'm pretty consistently crushed by an elemental shaman that is geared similarly to me. I don't see anything OP about my level of dps relative to my guildmates.

We currently start off strong, and our scaling doesn't keep up as we hit true endgame gear levels. As a druid, you should be pretty familiar with that issue from BC- I played a feral druid in Vanilla/BC- all the rogues and stuff whined about how strong we were in Kara- I was consistently in the top 2 spots. By Black Temple and beyond we were doing half what the pure dps classes were. That's scaling.

[the_dynamite]

best place to fihd out where you stand is check your dps on patchwrek...and make sure you see the boss fight only and not count the aoe trash pulls.

As far as your question goes DK are easy if you want to be average but moment you want to see yourself above average it tends to be more difficult considering there are many cool downs to watch for and if you miss your rotation your dps suffers.

[rathok]

Hmmm... in full epics with a Nax25 2h I do about 4k dps on the opening pull of OS25 and 3.5k dps on the boss so for some reason i dont believe you...

[Garric]

My DK's kit and spec are here.

TBH i'm feeling like trash over-inflates dps due to vast aoes DK's are doing, however on the sub-boss to the right (Tenebron? The one with one add who shields) my dps was a touch over 3k on that boss. Lower than everything else but still more than i should be doing at my gear level imho. I would also agree with Gome and Shifter, if this is a truish reflection of dps then scaling must suck to compensate.

Everyone's who's said go do Patch then stroke epeen, i agreed completely, however i need to ramp my hit/expertise up a bit more not to epic fail :P And seeing as i'm a nub i'll ask anyway, how much hit and expertise do i need?

[Bullshifter]

263 hit for 2H. (8%) Expertise at 26 will keep them from dodging, but don't worry about it too much yet, expertise will come with gear. I didn't check your armory though, if you're blood you might want to gem for it, but if you're unholy or Frost Iwouldn't worry too much about gemming for expertise.

edit- ok just took a look at your armory, being unholy, don't worry about gemming for expertise- it will just naturally upgrade as you get gear, and strength is fairly stronger on a point to point basis, so try to get near hit cap at least, then stack strength.

[darkdestiny]

This doesn't change the fact that DK's are too easy to play.. and do well as. xP

The rotations are extremely simple, and you can mash random buttons and likely hit 5k DPS with a decently geared DK on Patch. I mean... i've seen DK's macro entire rotations to a single button for both PvE and PvP and still come out on top.

It's disturbing to say the least.

Um this is straight BS, it is very difficult to bind DK abilities to a single macro, you have rune CD's you have to worry about runic power abilities etc. You obiviously dont know how to play a DK making posts like this. You may think your dps is good doing this crap but compared to who? a frost mage wearing salvage pvp gear?

Dammit another 2mns of life wasted making this reply :'(

[retart411]

Troll alert.

[Garric]

Luckily recount had not been reset, here's the numbers i could pull: