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  1. #1

    Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Hello there,

    First and foremost, I've done my research. I've done a thorough search of Frost DW specs here in the forums and I read all the comments and arguments about one talent or another. Now, I have concluded on this build here:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=191109050403

    The main points I debate in this build is the use of Killing Machine and the lack of Necrosis. Thing is, to take Necrosis it means I have to ditch Tundra Stalker. I know that Killing Machine has better returns on low crit, but not sure the crit that I'd have with tank gear with make it even relevant, it'd be something under 10% to crit for sure.

    Alternatively I could grab full Glacier Rot, Morbidity (heals under lich form and lower cooldown on glyphed DnD is nice) and Deathchill for that last hanging point to:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=191109050403

    Don't think I've missed anything, but feel free to point out if I have - or if there's better ways to go about this spec. Any kind of feedback would be welcome.

    Thanks!
    Served steaming hot, right out of the waffle grill. With just the right amount of STFU poured on top.

  2. #2

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    What would you see as the benefit regarding dual wielding for tanking? Given that you'll be giving the boss a chance to parry an attack every 1.05 secs or so? Please don't take that statement to be inflammatory, I really am interested.

  3. #3

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    I am impressed of how much the misinformed bit about parry gibbing for DW DKs has spread... but check this out:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.ph...3375#msg433375

    The benefits are that you can use two tanking weapons, the damage (and thus threat) ramps better with AP, and it looks cooler for some peeps

    Served steaming hot, right out of the waffle grill. With just the right amount of STFU poured on top.

  4. #4

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    That was a very interesting read, thanks! =)

  5. #5

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Are you thinking about DW becouse of Killing Mashine, or the stat gains from weapons?
    If for the stat gain, i woild advise you to leave Killing Mashine out. Your crit rate will be crap in tank gear.

    I vote for the spec whit Deathchill and Morbidity (D&D is damn nice), and on top leave out Annihilation (rather DS than Obli, plus your runes will be consumed by HB, D&D in most rotations and diesese reaplikations, so the Obli, DS usage is minimal) and put those 3 points into Scent od Blood (rather the RP for more Runestrikes and Froststrikes than 3% crit + the things stated above imo).
    Chill of the Grave instead of reach (RP aggain :P).
    Don't forget the IT Glyph!!!!111!!one (um... RP! :P)

    Generate more RP.
    You are dual wileding, expoit it to the max whit more Runestrikes (no GCD, does not interfere whit your rune skills), plus lessen the bosses parry chance.

    The build, note the glyps



  6. #6

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    The reasoning behind Killing Machine is that Howling Blast will be a pivotal part of the rotation for aggro, and that due to the amount of autoattacks, that the odds of making it crit for each rotation are pretty high even with kinda crap crit.

    I definitely see the reasoning behind RP generation for Runestrike spam, though. I think I'll at the very least nab Chill of the Grave.

    Will give it a go with this combination when I get home and see how it works - if I see I am still RP starved, I'll glyph. If still starved, will pick Scent of Blood.

    Not sure about DS over Obli, though, DS has shameful returns while dual wielding while Oblit still pushes out pretty decent damage (and thus, threat).

    Great feedback though - Appreciated. Anyone else got any suggestions/ideas?
    Served steaming hot, right out of the waffle grill. With just the right amount of STFU poured on top.

  7. #7

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    If you opt for Killing mashine go for the Rune Srike Glyph, Rune strike is treated as an auto attack soo (Is hit determined like a special? <-- dunno, missing rune stikes which ate the RP aint fun)... 10% crit chance bonus. 5 rp tho... Who cares! More killin mashinin

    edit: Checked, heroic strikes hit chance is determined as a yellow skill hit, so 9% miss chance. There is a good chance that it's the same here.

    Question: Does Death Strike produce aggro purelie from the damage, od does it produce aggro from damage + heal?



  8. #8

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    i would personally use this build

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

    it puts good use to the extra armor u will have with toughness and frost presence on 10% more parry out weighs 5% dodge anyday, DRM will give more death runes which helps to put obliterate and deathstrike into the picture more often, spell deflection is optional but i find that it brings a decent chance of taking less spell damage if u keep trinkets and other effects in mind that increase your parry and rune tap is a constructive way to get a blood rune out of the way for blade barrier

  9. #9

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by xenosque
    Good idea to consider more blood instead of unholy. About this spec though: 2H spec is useless for DW, and Rune Tap is pretty unnecessary as well - While you missed important stuff in Frost like Acclimation.

    I have a third postulate spec here now:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

    It ditches the idea of killing machine and thus the need of crit from blood, but will generate as much RP as possible to throw into rune strikes and frost strikes.

    I hadn't thought that Frost Strike really doesn't need diseases, so epidemic is not really vital. It'll make the rotations tighter, but it also means that you'll be using icy touch more often and thus creating more RP - especially if glyphed.

    A rotation could be:
    PS->IT->Pest->HB->BB for multiple targets.
    PS->IT->BS->BS->Oblit for single targets.

    In this rotation, as suggested before, annihilation may even become negligible - you could dump your excess rune power into Frost Strikes at the end of the rotation there.
    Served steaming hot, right out of the waffle grill. With just the right amount of STFU poured on top.

  10. #10

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    OMFG waht i found:

    Death Knight threat values !!!11!!one

    DK Attack Power coefficients

    What i would do:

    If the damage is needed for threat.

    If i generate enough treat, but SURVIVABILITY is more pressing.
    No Taloons (enha in raid)

    Rotation no Blood of north:

    IT > PS > Pesti > Deatchill,HB > BB > DC(FS) ; Pesti > HB > D&D(um... does high treat) > DC(FS)

    - whit butchery, scent of blood and whatnot you'll have enough RP to do some nice Rune strikes, and have a DC(FS) in the end

    (use pestilence on diferent targets in each rotation {jump between 2}, and you don't need to reaplie diseases, yet less rune power, no IT)

    ; no disease reaplikation, D&D on cd :
    Pesti > HB > BB > DS > DC

    (Trie to use blood runes 1/2 rotation from each other - maximium Blade Barier uptime)

    - insert BS on single mobs (replace Pesti, BB)

    Blood of north single target:

    IT > PS > BS > Deathchill,HB > BS > FS ; IT > HB > D&D(you have a 1 hander, this is threat :P) > FS

    ; D&D on cd:
    IT > HB > IT > DS > FS




  11. #11

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Woah, great finds dude! Thanks! (BTW, love the name Sergej, actually had a character with that name)

    I hadn't thought about the rotation with Pestilence, but makes sense really. You want to keep those blood runes spent anyway so...

    Hmm, so many variables to test. It'll take me a while before I can see them in action and can give some realistic feedback of what offsets what.

    EDIT: This will be my first test spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=121909040503

    Served steaming hot, right out of the waffle grill. With just the right amount of STFU poured on top.

  12. #12

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Does Death and Deacay Glyps have the same mechanic as the wariors Intimidating shout, or is it an actual fear?
    If it is like Intimidating shout, then it is useless, as the "cower in fear" component in Intimidating shout breaks on any damage recieved. It is not like the "flee in fear" komponent which is an actual fear.

    If it is like fear, whitout running arround, then it is a nice tool to reduce incomming damage from multiple mobs.



  13. #13

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=121909040503

    Going with this, actually. Missing Annihilation pretty badly on the previous spec, I seemed to have forgotten that Howling Blast has a 6 sec cooldown.

    I think this build is solid for DW Frost Tanking.
    Served steaming hot, right out of the waffle grill. With just the right amount of STFU poured on top.

  14. #14

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    What Weapons you use?

  15. #15

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Can't go wrong with 2 x http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37179 to get started.
    Served steaming hot, right out of the waffle grill. With just the right amount of STFU poured on top.

  16. #16
    Grimgrin
    Guest

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by ROFLWaffles
    I am impressed of how much the misinformed bit about parry gibbing for DW DKs has spread... but check this out:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.ph...3375#msg433375

    The benefits are that you can use two tanking weapons, the damage (and thus threat) ramps better with AP, and it looks cooler for some peeps

    I'd rather check this out.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t36998-d...ng_discussion/

    Not only because of it being EJ, but because it isn't just another MMO poster.

    It is important to remember THAT DKS DON'T HAVE MANY THREAT MULTIPLIERS that our tanking isn't just a matter of avoidance it is a matter OF GAINING THREAT.

    The biggest hit against DK tanks right now is that they have relatively weak threat generation on Raid bosses and that a geared mage can actually exceed them.

    You have to worry about threat too, and 2h provide us much higher threat atm. Thats not to say DW isn't viable it just doesn't have any CLEAR advantages over 2h.

    Edit: Its also important to remember that DW allows more chance for your target to Parry which means loss of White Damage and DW is HIGHLY dependent on Auto Attack procs in the first place.

  17. #17

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Stop pretending that dual wield tanking is the right way to go. There is no legitimate reasoning behind doing it.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  18. #18

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Meh those frost specs aren't spectacular tbh, getting icy talons or killing machine in a tank spec will always be meh in my opinion. It's up there with getting hungering cold. If you're going that deep into frost you still might as well get acclimation as most boss fights have some sort of magic damage in them, so any boost in your resistance to the spells is useful. Certainly more so than killing machine or icy talons

    In fact besides the general consensus that dw tanking sucks, which i agree, a lot of those posts on that ej thread are full of stupidity and are filled with dumb ideas about dk tanking.

    You have to remember that yes there are lots of good ideas and builds on EJ, but it's still a public forum, still filled with tons of tards, so you still have to think for yourself and sift through all the shit to find useful info.

    clicky for armory

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral miekkagoon's Avatar
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    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Personally i see that Killing machine is useful for extra threath gained from 2x dmg doing critting Howling blast

    And second thing
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigercat
    Stop pretending that dual wield tanking is the right way to go. There is no legitimate reasoning behind doing it.
    and go to other post ..... DW can be used in tanking as well as 2h greatest difference (counting parry out) that 2h doesent get bonus from KM and Dw does...

    ah and did i remember to say... start whit alt-f4 then hit wow on and start playing instead being on wrong post
    The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.

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  20. #20

    Re: Dual Wield Frost Tank Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamehenge
    Meh those frost specs aren't spectacular tbh, getting icy talons or killing machine in a tank spec will always be meh in my opinion.&#160; It's up there with getting hungering cold.&#160; If you're going that deep into frost you still might as well get acclimation as most boss fights have some sort of magic damage in them, so any boost in your resistance to the spells is useful.&#160; Certainly more so than killing machine or icy talons
    All my posted specs had Acclimation, the revised versions left out killing machine, icy talons is there because it brings a nice benefit to the raid and there was little else of more value to work the way down. Neither spec included Hungering Cold. Seriously, if you don't have the time to follow the progression of the thread and bring something constructive feel free to not post in this thread at all - there's plenty more around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigercat
    Stop pretending that dual wield tanking is the right way to go.&#160; There is no legitimate reasoning behind doing it.
    Trolling senseless as usual, Lou?&#160; Seriously, if you don't have anything constructive just go to another thread. The reasons have been stated, and you've not bothered to read them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimgrin
    It is important to remember THAT DKS DON'T HAVE MANY THREAT MULTIPLIERS that our tanking isn't just a matter of avoidance it is a matter OF GAINING THREAT.
    Funny. We have never had any kinds of threat issues with DW DK tanks. I can't remember one single case in which we had someone pull aggro, not one.
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