1. #1

    [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Would this be the optimal build for Unholy with Scourge strike-usage?

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

    Feedback is appreciated.

  2. #2

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    ¿toughness? ¿annihilation? ¿ghoul frenzy?

    While I could understand the rationale behind those choices, I'm sure there're better places where to spend thouse points on. Like, one of those points spent on annihilation, surely to boost your critical chance by 1%, could be better spent on ebon plagebringer, which not only gives you that 1% crit but also boost your shadow damage.
    "Holy bananas Ghostcrawler, ferals are doing well in pvp again!"

    "What!? To the nerfmobile!"

  3. #3

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    You're sacrificing too much just to pick up some talents that don't really benefit you as much as you might think. The points in Annihilation are worthless to a SS spam build- You won't be using Obliterate. You don't have Gargoyle. Bladed Armor is worth more on a point for point basis than Dark Conviction is (though by the end of the expansion that may not be the case due to BA having a pretty static value with armor not really going up much). You don't have NotD, so your ghoul is going to die constantly. You don't have Rage of Rivendare, which is a massively better talent than anything you've gone for in Frost- it adds 10% damage to everything and gives you 5 expertise. You're missing out on Wandering Plague, which is a much bigger contributor to dps on a point for point basis than a lot of people give it credit for, and it won't break CC while going about it's business. Black Ice seems good on paper at first, but you have to sacrifice too many great Unholy talents to get it. Toughness contributes very little to your dps, and you didn't even max the talent (Bladed Armor) that would allow you to maximize even the little gain you'd get for taking it. Not that I'm advocating Toughness at any rate in a dps build. No dirge in a SS spam build isn't a good thing either imo. It's one of our stronger talents.

    It's a pretty rough build honestly.

  4. #4

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Iv been reading alot on the forums. and checking alot of different specs and i'd say this will be a wery viable spec (about desecration might remove that.. depends on the fights in Ulduar)
    nr1:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704
    nr2: (if Ulduar requers alot of moving)
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

    on of these 2 i see as an exelent cookiecutter spec when the patch gets released.
    Might be wrong in some one's eyes please prove me wrong then

  5. #5

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Dark Conviction isn't as strong as it might seem. Desecration will be a solid choice regardless of how much movement is in Ulduar. With it being applied by SS, it will probably have a minimum uptime of 80% or so even in movement intensive fights, and as much as 100% uptime on Patchwerk style fights.

    The I-UP points are going to be worth it in Ulduar, as the math is showing that if you have more than about 5 secs of movement per minute- which is probably going to be the case more often than not in Ulduar, you get more out of that than you would by neglecting it for something else.

    Dirge is valuable regardless, and will only be more so as we lose the 4pcT7 set bonus.

    I think the cookie cutter specs are going to look something like this:

    If Impurity ends up being worth it post nerf, and given that Ulduar will be high movement, Morbidity should be higher in value than BcB (testing is still in progress):

    12/0/59

    If Impurity's value has dimished under BcB and DC, then it will probably look more like:

    14/0/57

    If the high movement dimishes BcB to a point where it is worth less than Dark Conviction (which is a possibility), then 1 pt will probably be taken out of BcB and thrown into DC- we can't reduce BcB any further than 2/3 with this build because at 28 pts deep once we finish filling out Reaping, we can't progress any further down the tree without sacrificing 2 pts in something of lower value- the best of which ends up being BcB.

    15/0/56

    There's a number of "if's" currently out there atm unfortunately, mostly having to do with the value of Impurity now, and how the movement intensive nature of Ulduar will affect the strength of various talents. I'm pretty sure one of those 3 will end up being the 2H Deep Unholy "cookie cutter" though.

  6. #6

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    I'm not 100% convicened that BcB is lessened with movement.

    Maexxna
    Skill Name Total Damage Land Percent Hits Avg DOT Mitigation
    Blood-Caked Strike 11,407 14 2.1% 14 814
    Grobbulus
    Blood-Caked Strike 11,284 17 2.8% 16 705

    I dont know of a boss that is more movement based than Grobulus, I may be total off or not understanding, but BcB does not look to be a factor in alot of movement.

  7. #7

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    10pts in frost imo is a great investment.

  8. #8

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Quote Originally Posted by thelordymir
    10pts in frost imo is a great investment.
    Personally, I think you'll have to give up too many good Unholy talents to get it- I'm not saying it won't be viable- I just don't think it will be optimal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keemen
    I'm not 100% convicened that BcB is lessened with movement.

    Maexxna
    Skill Name Total Damage Land Percent Hits Avg DOT Mitigation
    Blood-Caked Strike 11,407 14 2.1% 14 814
    Grobbulus
    Blood-Caked Strike 11,284 17 2.8% 16 705

    I dont know of a boss that is more movement based than Grobulus, I may be total off or not understanding, but BcB does not look to be a factor in alot of movement.
    Even 2.8 to 2.1% contribution is a pretty significant change in value per point- down from .93%/pt, to .7%/pt in that comparison. And I've seen tests from Ulduar where it's contribution was down even further to around 1.5%- which would be .5% per point. It's a question mark at this point.

  9. #9

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    0/10/61

  10. #10

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Dual Wield Unholy build 0/18/53.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

    Little bit of wiggle room for the user with Annihilation and Morbidity. This spec is also assuming that Black Ice affects SS and Unholy Blight.

  11. #11

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Great, thx guys

    Very appreciated feedback. I'll make sure to adjust the spec accordingly

  12. #12

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    ಠ_ಠ
    i think i'll go blood instead

  13. #13

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaShafer
    Dual Wield Unholy build 0/18/53.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

    Little bit of wiggle room for the user with Annihilation and Morbidity. This spec is also assuming that Black Ice affects SS and Unholy Blight.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaShafer
    Dual Wield Unholy build 0/18/53.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

    Little bit of wiggle room for the user with Annihilation and Morbidity. This spec is also assuming that Black Ice affects SS and Unholy Blight.
    terrible, ghouls gonna die your specced into frost and yet are using dual rune strikes so you don't icy touch your weapon is lower strike damage the 20% haste should already be in your raid so there are 5 wasted talent points unless your specificly there to pretend your a bad enhance shaman you dont have dirge and you dont have impurity so your coefficents and your runic power is low so why do you need runic power mastery? it wont be full after a rotation and instead we opt for corpse explosion a situational skill and ghoul frenzy which is a dps loss over using that unholy for any other ability.
    so basically you will be trying to gain back all this damage loss from blood tree and unholy with black ice when you have gimped your shadow spell coefficients and the amount of runic power you get per strike.
    Make up your mind what your going to be using as your rotation don't just get everything in a gimped capacity.
    If you dont have dirge runic power mastery is empty points.
    Your not using spells and so strike damage is lower yet your all about strikes in this spec, as it is now it would prolly do more damage with a 2 hander even with nerves of cold steel.

  14. #14

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Quote Originally Posted by Batsmuggler
    0/10/61
    I'm actually considering this:http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

    The points in the unholy tree could be moved around easily to incorporate Improved Unholy Presence if the movement speed increase proves to be more valuable than other points in the tree.

    The real question I have though is whether a Black Ice Unholy spec like this would be superior to a spec similar to the current live standard like this:http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767 (yes, i know there's an unspent point but i was too lazy to figure out where to put it and this is just a quickly put together example to help make my point so don't kill me plz >.<)


  15. #15

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    We have gone over this a thousand times by now...


    In Ulduar gear, 0/10/61 will win.

  16. #16

    Re: [unholy] 3.1 with the latest build

    Quote Originally Posted by Henryhimself
    I'm actually considering this:http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

    The points in the unholy tree could be moved around easily to incorporate Improved Unholy Presence if the movement speed increase proves to be more valuable than other points in the tree.

    The real question I have though is whether a Black Ice Unholy spec like this would be superior to a spec similar to the current live standard like this:http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767 (yes, i know there's an unspent point but i was too lazy to figure out where to put it and this is just a quickly put together example to help make my point so don't kill me plz >.<)

    Basically 12/0/59 will be the strongest Deep Unholy spec as we enter Ulduar. 0/10/61 will be very close. 0/10/61 will pull ahead significantly by the end of t8 content, due to much better scaling.

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