Balance Druids.

[Latimer - Rabble]

You dont need to tell the spriests to do anything. The +3% hit is just a passive result of them casting a MF, SWP or VT.

If you spriests have not talented into it, they are fail.

IFF is a waste of 3 talent points for boomkins if you are doing 25 man raids.

[Cateaka]

You dont need to tell the spriests to do anything. The +3% hit is just a passive result of them casting a MF, SWP or VT.

If you spriests have not talented into it, they are fail.

IFF is a waste of 3 talent points for boomkins if you are doing 25 man raids.

Quite the opposite, I don't know how my Spriests are spec'd so I wouldn't know what they have or not, but a Boomkin not spec'd into iFF? Your crazy, the extra 3% is such a huge advantage because it stacks with the Totem of Wrath and a Focus Magic, so thats an extra 9% crit from three things. So don't tell me its not worth it.

[Grisan]

Aswell, on the Haste to crit ratio, Haste is ALWAYS over crit. The more haste you have, the faster you can cast, and the faster you can cast, has a higher chance to crit, soo Haste always goes over Crit.

Not quite.

In theory and on a point-for-point basis that is true, in reality the difference in DPS is quite low. The difference in mana consumption is not. It is not a problem in 25-man raid but in 10 man it can become an issue. Also you shouldn't ignore crit entirely (many players do).
Moonkins are a very crit-dependend class. The most important DPS talents (Natures Grace, Eclipse, Vengeance) and some mana regen abiltities depend on a decent crit-rate. Also the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond grants 3% damage increase to crits. A high crit rate in combination with these talents will increase your DPS significantly. Even if you can cast Starfire 25-30% faster than normal the DPS will not scale well unless you achieve a lot of Eclipse procs. To get these you need a certain amount of crit.

So even if haste may be slightly better than crit in optimal circumstances crit is not far behind. It is however the mana efficiency is much better and it is more forgiving to lags, low fps and human error.

[Cateaka]

Grisan, Have you Armory'd me? I have enough crit, I have about 37-47% crit in 25 mans. I don't really do 10 mans, so I dont care about them. So, al I need to do is focus on Haste.

[Cateaka]

I agree with you Medium9, procs with crits are great and all, but if you dont have the haste to back up the crits aswell as the RNG in factors too, it can always vary. So I dont see what Grisan thinks he does, Id really like to armory him, but I dont know his character/server, so I cant.

Eh, the Mechanics for a boomkin are probably almost at the peak they will ever get, seeing as how our 4pc set bonus on the t8 is completely OP or PvP or PvE, even though we will still get freaking raped in PvP, we still have that percentage to get a free starfire.

[DepecheMode]

Well, I am hitcapped, I raid with a couple draenei and Im always near em. But I dont have the time for that cloak, I would really like to get it, but i just need to get the Dying curse then I will change up my gear.

All you need for the cloak is find a tailorer with the pattern. Not everyone has it but someone in your guild should be able to make it.

[Wilshire153]

I've actually taken some time and devised a few equations on how you can figure out how much of a dps increase crit has from the talents: Nature's Grace and Eclipse

First of all if I have 0% crit and haste (yes this is impossible) If i was doing 2500 dps and I were to add 1% crit my dps would become 2525 dps.

If I were to instead add 1% haste my dps would become 2525. There is no difference at between haste and crit in this sense.

The difference between haste and crit is haste is an additive and crit is a multiplicative

In the event that haste is higher that crit, crit will be more beneficial
In the event that crit is higher than your haste, haste will be more beneficial

If a full raid you should have 21% crit from buffs alone and have more crit from gear from gear alone. If you gear for nothing but haste you maybe have 15% haste from gear. Since haste is lower than crit haste will almost always be worth more than crit.

Haste also gains 50% more from rating than crit does but crit also comes from intellect so most of those points are made up.

This is explained more here

http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/adorie...o_ratings.html

However, haste does not trigger any of your talents where your critical do, this throws and entirely new variable into the equation.

The first talent we will take in consideration is Eclipse. Determining on what your crit percentage is determines how easily you will gain 60% chance of activating eclipse. If my crit chance is 20% I have a 12% chance of gaining this + 30% critical increase on Starfire if we are doing the current “popular rotation.”

CP  = Crit Percentage

(((0.006 x CP) x (CP + 30)) + (1- (0.006 x CP))) x CP =  (X) Eclipse DPS

But Eclipse only has the potential to be active 33.3333(repeating)% = (1/3) of the time you are dpsing. So that needs to be factored out as well.

Eclipse DPS = Edps
Non-Eclipse DPS = Ndps

(1/3 x Edps) + (2/3 x Ndps) = (X) Average DPS

Another talent we need to take in consideration is. The higher your critical strike chance the more likely you are to obtain Nature’s Grace. In 3.1 that will be coming out shortly Nature’s Grace is changed to +20% haste instead of the .5second reduction time making it apply to all spells including dots sense haste decreases global CD. With this being the case depending on what your crit % is you can add 20% of that in haste.

CP = Crit Percentage

CP + (.20 x CP) = DPS

So if I have 20% crit it is really a 24% increase in DPS other than the original 20%. In this case, instead of crit gains a higher bonus when there is more added.

So now lets factor in the difference between haste and critical strike when a person has 2500 dps.

If we add 30% haste to 2500 dps that comes out to be 3250

If we add 30% crit to 2500 dps it also comes out be 3250

If you are talented for Eclipse you can factor that in also

(((0.006 x 30) x (30 + 30)) + (1- (0.006 x 30))) x 30 =  (X) Eclipse DPS

((0.18) x (60)) + ((1 – (0.18)) x 30 = (X) Eclipse DPS

10.8 + (0.82 x 30) =  (X) Eclipse DPS

10.8 + 24.6 = (35.4) Eclipse DPS

Now factor that with the potential eclipse up time to find an average.

(1/3 x 35.4) + (2/3 x 30) = (X) Average DPS

11.8 + 20 = 31.8% Average DPS

So now 30% crit is equivalent to 31.8% dps, which would change your 2500dps to 3295dps instead of 3250 dps.

Now factor in Nature’s Grace and its even more.

31.8 + (.20 x 31.8 ) = 38. 15%

Now your dps went from 3250 to 3453.75

30% haste = 30% haste after Eclipse and Nature’s Grace

30% crit = 38.15% after Eclipse and Nature’s Grace

After doing this I realize that this probably could have been worked with an easier formula, but this is evidence that crit does add more damage to haste. Please tell me if I made a mistake so I can fix it. I’m also working on how much of an increase adding haste would make to this, and how the amount of dps up time fits into this.
 

[Degrador]

After doing this I realize that this probably could have been worked with an easier formula, but this is evidence that crit does add more damage to haste. Please tell me if I made a mistake so I can fix it. I’m also working on how much of an increase adding haste would make to this, and how the amount of dps up time fits into this.

TBH, formulas can only tell you so much. The only true way to get reliable values for the DPS worth of a stat is to use a simulator. Simulationcraft is a decent one that supports boomkins:
3.0.9: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
3.1.0: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...ampleOutputPTR

In both versions if you look up the SF eclipse version of the balance druid (Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF) you'll see Haste worth ~20-30% more than Crit.

[Wilshire153]

Thanks that website is awesome, helped a lot, I hope my post helped some of you though to figure out more about crit.