Observations on Talent #s and more

[Sinister Knight]

Being bored the other day I decided to count up the talents each Class/Spec has available to them in the current 3.1 build. This is what I came up with: (I aplogize for the misalignment, can't be helped atm without a lot more work)

H/ Druid: Bal: 75 Feral: 78 Resto: 80 Total: 233
P/ Mage: Arc: 81 Fire: 73 Frost: 74 228
H/ Death Knight: Bl: 75 Fros: 76 Unh: 77 228
P/ Hunter: BM: 74 MM: 75 Surv: 78 227
H/ Shaman: Elem: 73 Enh: 76 Resto: 76 225
P/ Rogue: Assa: 74 Com: 78 Subt: 71 223
H/ Warrior: Arms: 80 Fury: 78 Prot: 64 222
H/ Priest: Disc: 74 Holy: 79 Shad: 67 220
P/ Warlock: Aff: 70 Demo: 71 Dest: 75 216
H/ Paladin: Holy: 74 Prot: 69 Ret: 66 209

So as it stands Paladins have the fewest total Talents available, Ret the 2nd fewest of ANY spec, and would need overall approximately 14-16 more talents to break even with the majority of Classes. Between Pure DPS and Hybrid Classes there is a large variation as well as a decent difference between classes that have a "set" pvp Tree (Frost, Subterfuge). Paladins have no real pvp Tree, yet we have the fewest Talents to choose from by a fair margain.

Upon further observation I noted that it seems that the other hybrid classes, Shaman and Druid in particular (and Druid especially given they are the only other hybrid class that can tank/heal/dps, and in fact have 4 viable specs counting 2 different dps types) these classes have a good amount of synergy granting dps in their heal trees. Conversely, Paladins as Holy benefit from going into Ret for extra crit, but Ret has very little reason to spec into Holy aside from possible getting Aura Mastery for an added dmg boost from Ret Aura.

On top of that, it appears that in the Ret tree almost exclusively, we have a primarily PvP power Chained to a combination PvE/PvP talent (primarily PvE) that we cannot access without taking the first power. This is of course Repentance. (more on that below)

What is the point of all these observations? I suppose merely to point out that Blizzard really needs to step up to the plate regarding available talents for Paladins, and hopefully add some real synergy with the Holy tree without overbloating it with talents(seeing as it already has 74). I know others have suggested adding SotM/B to Seals of the Pure. Another addition I wouldn't mind seeing would be lowering Combat Expertise down in the Prot tree to be available for Rets to get, perhaps chaining it to a pve designed Talent to discourage PvP rets from taking it without gimping themselves somehow. Another alternative would be to separate the Threat reduction talent from the Judgement crit talent, so that a PvE Ret wouldn't feel forced to take Repentance (atm I hardly ever use it in PvE, though I hear they will add more need for CC in Ulduar so meh maybe it'll be necessary for raid again) if they didn't want to. Then they could boost RV back up some, possibly add an Improved Crusader Strike Talent like several other class specs have (Improved CS[3 Ranks]: Your CS also has a 4/7/10% chance to increase Holy Dmg done by you to the target by 10%)

Anyway it's raid time, sorry for the wall of text just some things on my mind.

[Lumidar]

are you seriously complaining that we don't have enough talent points??


we just finally got our prot talents reduced cus we were do f*kin bloated.

and Ret spends all their talents in the same tree which they shouldn't so blizz should work on making talents in other trees better so you can multi-tree

[davep]

H/ Druid:     Bal: 75 Feral: 78 Resto: 80 Total: 233
P/ Mage:     Arc: 81 Fire: 73 Frost: 74     228
H/ Death Knight: Bl:  75 Fros: 76 Unh:  77     228
P/ Hunter:    BM:  74 MM:  75 Surv: 78     227
H/ Shaman:    Elem: 73 Enh:  76 Resto: 76     225
P/ Rogue:     Assa: 74 Com:  78 Subt: 71     223
H/ Warrior:    Arms: 80 Fury: 78 Prot: 64     222
H/ Priest:    Disc: 74 Holy: 79 Shad: 67     220
P/ Warlock:    Aff: 70 Demo: 71 Dest: 75     216
H/ Paladin:    Holy: 74 Prot: 69 Ret:  66     209

[Sinister Knight]

are you seriously complaining that we don't have enough talent points??


we just finally got our prot talents reduced cus we were do f*kin bloated.

and Ret spends all their talents in the same tree which they shouldn't so blizz should work on making talents in other trees better so you can multi-tree

you obviously missed the point I was getting at. They cut down our talent points a great deal, and we really could use some dps talents in the other trees to make up for it, like all the other classes have for better cross tree synergy.

[Tigercat]

Nothing wrong with not having a ton of talents to choose from. I, a prot warrior(that's the absolute lowest for number of points in the tree for those that didnt bother to find it in the above chart), would probably not be alone in greatly disliking any attempt by Blizzard to clutter up our talent tree. Being streamlined > being bloated, and I can't remember the last time I saw a retadin that actually trusted Blizzard to get it right.

[Gilgemesh]

The entirety of the problem with talents on the pally is that each time they add something new, it has HUGE additions. Look at what they put at the top of the prot tree... 5% healing out and 5% healing in. If we weren't hard to kill before...now its worse. And amplifying damage in the prot or holy trees might help, but any more than 3-5% total damage output would OP us too much and they'd come back with the nerf bat and it'd take 2 more xpacks to recover.

[Elementium]

All I ask is for a few additional talents that will help my dps instead of just filling em in to PvP talents or improving very situational spells. I'm starting to get very nervous about the lack of pally news.

[Deleted]

I have taken a look at ret tree also and I found it absolutely ridiculous that if you PvE then you'll have a dozen talent points left over and nothing useful PvE-wise to spend them on. Yes, you can fill out the whole ret tree and still have points over to go to prot...but, how much good do those PvP talents do when raiding? Exactly; none.