Crusader Strike change not happening in 3.1

[PalliesThrowStuff]

you know judgement, DS and now CS all have there own RV effect. they dont refresh each other but they're all separate.

its simple

judgement crit --------------- (lines represent RV)
DS crit --------------------
judgement crit --------------------

they overlap each other because they're separate from each other. not 1 dot. atm it is 2 dot and its becoming 3 dots.

so imagine:

judgement crit ---------------
CS crit ----------------
DS crit ----------------
judgement crit --------------

because CS is 6 seconds and RV lasts 8, it can overlap making it possible to do very nice dot dmg with it.

so the crit on DS + CS on the 4p ret bonus is to increase dmg with this dot

Are you sure it works this way? Or is this new? My latest parse is from february, but comparing two same-boss fights against one another, I do less RV damage the more frequently my Divine Storm crits in relation to Judgement Crits, which seems to contradict an ignite style dot that creates hidden stacks.

[iktankniet]

copied this from elitist jerks. its the discription of RV:

Once again stealing from the warriors! The RV dot does indeed "roll" like the warrior version, meaning critical judgements and DS's in succession will refresh the dot duration, not overwrite it. The RV dot is a magic effect and thus dispellable, can be partially resisted by bosses, but is not mitigated by armor.

[CookieEater]

They should just make it like the one used by the guys in Scarlet Monastery: a debuff that increases Holy damage taken. The only reason it did not do so in TBC (didn't play before then) was because you would have Judgement of Crusader up and would keep refreshing it through Crusader Strike, but the end result was the same.

[Kawasaki.gdm]

Even so, the DPS gain is minimal.

Pls gime me back my 7% crit on judg and 10% mora RV dmg.

Exorcism is a BAND AID FIX, blizz have no ideia how to balance ret without make us OP in PVP.

[Adamson]

Dont know who you are personally, but is that Angelina Jolie? If it is, that's the prettiest she's ever looked.

Dude, how do you not know who Ferarro is >.>

[Saintety]

My guess is that Blizzard knows what kind of trouble we have when it comes to kill a caster that is why they wanted to give CS a secondary effect just like Overpower (UA). I've been thinking about it and i thought the solution could be to use seal of justice to PvP . That seal procs often but the poor seal does not do any damage and the target is immune after 2 stuns; that means u have to switch seals ==> waste time because of global CD and eventually oom early.

Solution:

Remove both seal of justice and seal of command from a game and get back to seal of the Crusader but this time, it would be a mix of both seals of command and justice. 8)

_________________________________________________
Seal of the Crusader
Rank 1/1
Requires 10 points in Retribution talents
14% mana base
Instant cast
Give the Paladin's melee attacks a chance to stun the target for 2.5 sec or deal additional holy damage (based on Spell Power and Main hand weapon). Only 1 seal can be active on the paladin at any one time. Lasts 30 min

Unleashing the seal's energy will judge an enemy instantly causing holy damage (based on Spell Power and Main hand weapon). This attack will always be a critical hit if the target is stunned or incapacitated.
_________________________________________________

This would be a purely pvp seal. its not like people use seal of command in PvE anyways and rarely do people use seal of justice in both pve and pvp. the seal of blood/martyr is risky in pvp as well.

[StpdSxyJef]

Imo, it is something they should do, but they approached it wrong.
Everyone wants to have a pve effect, but a pvp effect wouldn't be a bad thing either.

My suggestion:

Crusader Strike is now An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage. In addition, your crusader strike will also give the player X (can't think of names lol) debuff that will increase holy damage taken by 4%, stacks up to 3 times, lasts 10 seconds.

Then add a new talent in the ret tree, something like:

Improved Crusader Strike:
Your crusader strike debuff (or the X that it is called) also reduces healing done by 10% and magical damage done by 5%

I not sure what the 12% increased holy damage would do, could reduce it to 3% or even 2%, but the improved talent would allow pvp'ers to gain a 30% debuff, if they focused the targeted, it wouldn't be too OP with MS effects, and it would be magic i.e. dispellable (just to balance things out at the start). In addition, since it can effect magical damage, it can be useful against other classes not just healers. Since it would take 18 seconds to get 30% reduction i couldn't see it being too OP. Also if it is dispellable, and that is causing problems, you could change it to afflict a new debuff, i.e. crusader strike giving 2 debuffs at a time, making it harder for it be dispelled.

Just an idea :P

I like this idea... however increasing holy damage dealt to the target = more burst off Judgement... which is already very bursty. Perhaps balancing the damage of Judgement down a bit would make this a viable change. If you reduce some sources so that the overall effect is an increase it'd be good.

Also liked the stacking MS type debuff up to 3 stacks for 30% and spell power reduction by 15%. Would just need to make sure that 50% MS debuffs supercede the MS portion but not the spell power portion. Seems pretty fair considering it'd take 12 seconds to get up to full stacks (you neglected to account for stack one at t=0).

My guess is that Blizzard knows what kind of trouble we have when it comes to kill a caster that is why they wanted to give CS a secondary effect just like Overpower (UA). I've been thinking about it and i thought the solution could be to use seal of justice to PvP . That seal procs often but the poor seal does not do any damage and the target is immune after 2 stuns; that means u have to switch seals ==> waste time because of global CD and eventually oom early.

Solution:

Remove both seal of justice and seal of command from a game and get back to seal of the Crusader but this time, it would be a mix of both seals of command and justice. 8)

_________________________________________________
Seal of the Crusader
Rank 1/1
Requires 10 points in Retribution talents
14% mana base
Instant cast
Give the Paladin's melee attacks a chance to stun the target for 2.5 sec or deal additional holy damage (based on Spell Power and Main hand weapon). Only 1 seal can be active on the paladin at any one time. Lasts 30 min

Unleashing the seal's energy will judge an enemy instantly causing holy damage (based on Spell Power and Main hand weapon). This attack will always be a critical hit if the target is stunned or incapacitated.
_________________________________________________

This would be a purely pvp seal. its not like people use seal of command in PvE anyways and rarely do people use seal of justice in both pve and pvp. the seal of blood/martyr is risky in pvp as well.

I like this idea as well, and that might actually make it worth picking up again, seeing as currently, the damage differential between Blood and Command make not worth the point for most pallies. The one problem is that Blizz has been removing RNG stuns and this would make RNG stuns a major player. Still I like the idea and with some tweaking it could be great.

[Palatinus]

oh yeah 12 seconds, woops, i guess i was sleepy, i remember typing 12 seconds and then changing it rofl.

The RNG stun though, hmmm i doubt blizzard would go for it, isn't seal of justice like one of the only remaining RNG stun procs? Not to mention they've been removing so many lately and i can't see them allowing one to proc a stun and still do damage without needing to spend more mana.

I think there is always the possibility of increasing some sort of pve dps, say RV damage from crusader strike, and then adding in an improved crusader strike talent (there surly much be one coming, since they seem to be reducing the size of the ret tree alot). Imagine the improved talent would have to be for pvp, and if they don't want it to be an MS effect, it could be likely it will be some sort of snare/slowing effect, ??? who knows :

[Kawasaki.gdm]

Want an easy way to fix Command?

Here it is:

Make seal proc 70% weapon dmg like had allways been.... So it wouldnt be a total crap for PVE and would be better for PVP.

And seal of blood glyph will make sence, becose now if a paladin that wants to kill himself, will be for mana not only to do at least a decent damage.

[Maneken]

As I wrote on Retpaladin.com:

"Yeah, it’s just a testing thing. The CS secondary is going around Blizz right now and seeing how it works. The fact that it can stack with MS is a major sticking point since Greg vowed never to give another class an MS-type effect. The developers don’t want MS to be some sort of “PvP tuning knob.” It still might eventually make it in, but when and in what form isn’t decided.

"Y’all still got buffed." =)

Nobody is saying it need to be as MS, why not to works only on casters dmg and not on healing.
Or it can work like this, CS have now debuff:

In addition, if you strike a player while they are casting, their magical damage casted on you will be reduced by 50% for 6 sec.

OR

In addition, if you strike a player while they are casting, their magical damage and healing casting time will be increased by 50% for 6 sec

OR

In addition, if you strike a player while they are casting, their magical damage will give backfire by 20% to caster for 6 sec.

There is alot room to work with CS ability to become great pvp skill and in other hand not overpowered.

P.s. Numbers of % can be lowered ofc also debuff will not work on mobs.

[Kawasaki.gdm]

I will post this again. This also have been posted many times in lots of foruns, including blizzard official foruns.

Im my opinion the best PVE and PVP secondary effect to CS, will be good for the raid and good for PVP, since is just the opposite of a MS.

Crusader Strike: An Instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage. And inflict Regret on target for 6 sec, all damage done by regreted target will heal the paladins group/raid (up to 3 group/raid members) for 5% of the damage dealt. And all healing done by regreted target will heal the paladin group by 15% of the healing done.

----------

Look how perfect this is:

for PVE: strikes the boss with regret, for example he hits the tank for 10k and the raid for another 10k = 20k total damage, so 5% of that is 1000. So 3 group members will be healed by 1000 dmg. Imagine that every 3 seconds, its alot of healing.

for PVP: Lets say you strike the healer, and he cast a 5k heal. So 3 people of your group will be healed for 750, not game breaking at all. This will only make the other healer to think becose he is healing your team too.

This fit to a paladin concept like a glove: If you hit a paladin, he can transform some of the pain into healing, or you wanna heal yourself we will channel some of that healing in our benefit.

[kailtas]

crusader strike.

crusader strike: causes 110% weapon damage, in adition to this effect the target's computer will automaticly open up the pvp

thread on the wow forums.

the player will most likely be qq'ing for one of the reasons

1. pally is OP!

2. damn window came up i coudnt do shit

[ScatteredBWL]

Why doesn't blizz just get on with it and give us a kick ffs. I can live without an MS but give me SOME kind of utility other then a stun on a 30 sec CD (full talents) and can be trinket HoF'd or cleansed.....I ....just.....want....UTILITY

[Jaromir]

Why doesn't blizz just get on with it and give us a kick ffs. I can live without an MS but give me SOME kind of utility other then a stun on a 30 sec CD (full talents) and can be trinket HoF'd or cleansed.....I ....just.....want....UTILITY

Stun are cleansable ?

[tjanson]

Stun are cleansable ?

Ours are.

[Zelven]

Stun are cleansable ?

It's a magic effect. HoJ can be cleansed by nearby teammates if they happen to be a priest, paladin, or felhunter.

[Palatinus]

Why doesn't blizz just get on with it and give us a kick ffs. I can live without an MS but give me SOME kind of utility other then a stun on a 30 sec CD (full talents) and can be trinket HoF'd or cleansed.....I ....just.....want....UTILITY

And not to mention that our so called 'interupt' is now 40second cd (talents) :P

[Kawasaki.gdm]

Blizzard will not give us an Interrupt, give up, you guys know why? Becose of a racial skill.

Becose Blood elfs have arcane torrent, and with another class interrupt Blood elf pallys will be really OP:

they could get to a healer and stun, arcane torrent, repent, and a new interrupt = DEAD HEALER.

[kailtas]

Blizzard will not give us an Interrupt, give up, you guys know why? Becose of a racial skill.

Becose Blood elfs have arcane torrent, and with another class interrupt Blood elf pallys will be really OP:

they could get to a healer and stun, arcane torrent, repent, and a new interrupt = DEAD HEALER.

so not true.... i imagine we have it easier than alliance palas but healers are pain nowedays.

but we cant kill healers just like that because most healers got high hp (20k+) high resi 900+ and 1 slippoff = healer do insta 10k heals and we gota wait 2 min until next time it is posible.
arcane torent doesnt auto win. it helps alot but it doesn't work that way

[PewZ007]

Crusader strike now deals 150% weapon damage
Your Crusader strike now dazes the target for 3 seconds.

Done and done