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  1. #1

    How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    Shadowform, as everyone knows, is the bread and butter for shadowpriests.
    It gives us +shadowdamage, -15% physical, increases our DoTs damage by our crit chance and reduces our threat (Next patch: -15% all damage and dots crit). But the downside is that we cannot use holy spells, thus making us unable to heal ourselves or others.
    It also costs 32% base mana (1161 mana for an UD with Shadow Focus)

    Now look at Druids, the have 2 shapeshifts that rely on mana.
    Moonkin and Tree of Life.

    Moonkin form increases armor from items by 360%, all raid members within 45 yards get 5% spell critical strike chance, they have a chance when they crit with a spell to regenerate 2% of their mana instantly and when they shapeshift they remove all Polymorph and Movement Impairing effects on themselves.
    While Moonkin form is active you cannot cast restoration spells, except for Remove Curse.
    It costs 22% base mana, 10% lower than Shadowform(for those who can't do the math)

    Tree of Life increases healing received by 6% for all raid members within 45 yards, reduces 20% mana cost of all healing over time spells.
    Also removes all Polymorph and Movement Impairing effects.
    Costs 28% base mana and cannot cast balance spells excluding couple of spells.
    (Next patch: Tree of Life gets 260% more armor from items, base mana cost reduced to 13% but no longer reduces the mana cost for HoT spells)

    Shadowform: 32%
    Moonkin: 22%
    Tree of Life: 28% (13%)

    So now, I'll let you decide, is this fair?

  2. #2

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    I don't think Shadows' problems in PvP comes from a high Shadowform cost, and it's not like a mana buff is needed for PvE. So I can't see a reason to lower the mana cost "just because another class has it".
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    But we're worried that logic might not lead to the best game.

  3. #3

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiken

    (Next patch: Tree of Life gets 260% more armor from items, base mana cost reduced to 13% but no longer reduces the mana cost for HoT spells)
    From what I understand, while shifting into tree form doesnt reduce the mana cost for spells in the next patch, but simply having the talent does.

  4. #4

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by luthi
    From what I understand, while shifting into tree form doesnt reduce the mana cost for spells in the next patch, but simply having the talent does.
    Yes.

    @OP you forgot to mention all other shapeshifts/metamorphoses you don't have.

  5. #5

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    druids don't get to melt faces

  6. #6

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    If it makes you feel any better, neither does Shadow Priests. :P
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    But we're worried that logic might not lead to the best game.

  7. #7

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    Priests do not have their entire class based around shapeshifting...
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    IMO all forms should be mana free unless in combat.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  9. #9

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    I don't think it's a fair comparison to make with another class. You would shift out of form to cast holy spells. A druid would shift for a number of reasons. Among them to shed snares, go bear for survivability, go cat for stealth, etc. Just not the same. Just reiterating Abandon's point I guess. Yes I created an account just for this

  10. #10

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    /agree with OP

    Since our shadow dps is intentionally gimped by blizz, because apparently we're supposed to bounce in and out of shadowform to drop some offheals, then lower the goshdarn mana-cost of shadowform, at least to be equal to a Boomkin's. >

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Eilt's Avatar
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    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    Come back when you shapeshift anywhere near as much as Druids do. Also, you can lower the mana cost of Shadowform but them moonkins should get Replenishment and I think our hit talent, improved faerie fire should not have to be cast, it should just be applied when we attack.

    See what I did there?

  12. #12

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    What you did in comparison removes the fact that in pvp we have ... --> <-- this much survivability. Where as druids still have loads more if I'm not mistaken... PvE wise shadow form cost isn't something to care about. PvP wise there might be a point but to be honost... don't do pvp as shadow we're f***ed up.

    Besides last I checked crit in boomkin mode = mana.

  13. #13

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    All I see was..

    "Now lets look at .. (insert other class)."

    Stop comparing classes like that. Its annoying. They are all supposed to be very different. Thats the whole point of it. When someone use this asking for a change, their arguments become meaningless.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    In this game its a trend to base one class after something, then add similar effects or ideas on another class - lower the cd / mana cost on the first class since they are build around it obviously, but not on the other classes with similar ideas cause they aren't build around that one thing to - fx, with druids to switch in and out of forms.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  15. #15

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by SFJake
    All I see was..

    "Now lets look at .. (insert other class)."

    Stop comparing classes like that. Its annoying. They are all supposed to be very different. Thats the whole point of it. When someone use this asking for a change, their arguments become meaningless.
    Lets see, in order to make a comparison you need two different sets of data, so either you compare two different classes or you dont compare at all. Fell free to get a firm grasp on the english language before trying to post again. Or perhaps you simply ment that no comparison should be made at all? If that is the case how do you prepose that the OP defines his data point? He believes that the shift to shadow form is over budgeted, and in order to prove his point he COMPARES it to a like mechanic on a different class. Many people would say that the ability to shift form non-stop for a druid is greatly underbudgeted, but I digress. Perhaps we should not bother to compare survivability between tanks, only warriors to warriors, druids to druids? Your statment is without merit and grossly short sighted.

    Yes shadow form should have its budget reduced, but even so it will still have little place in pvp.

  16. #16

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    I think this is b/c blizz intends the spriest to be a pure DPS build, not a utility/blend like a druid. In other words, despite what others thing, a spriest really isn't meant to be shifting in and out of shadowform unless necessary.

    However, sometimes it makes sense to do shift to normal form which is why it doesn't cost an ungodly amount of mana. It only becomes cost prohibitive if you do it constantly

  17. #17

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    I usually use Inner Focus to "shapeshift" back to shadowform..

    It reduces its mana cost to 0.. And it will save you much more mana then using it on a damaging spell if you needed to throw some heals or something.

    Ofcourse, you will lose the 25% crit, but meh..

  18. #18

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by picklee
    Lets see, in order to make a comparison you need two different sets of data, so either you compare two different classes or you dont compare at all. Fell free to get a firm grasp on the english language before trying to post again. Or perhaps you simply ment that no comparison should be made at all? If that is the case how do you prepose that the OP defines his data point? He believes that the shift to shadow form is over budgeted, and in order to prove his point he COMPARES it to a like mechanic on a different class. Many people would say that the ability to shift form non-stop for a druid is greatly underbudgeted, but I digress. Perhaps we should not bother to compare survivability between tanks, only warriors to warriors, druids to druids? Your statment is without merit and grossly short sighted.

    Yes shadow form should have its budget reduced, but even so it will still have little place in pvp.
    I like this logic. Lets compare Shifting into shadowform to shifting into shadowform. GASP! they are equal! thus this is a nonissue. (i was agreeing with picklee by the way, you have to compare class issues with other classes, why else would they worry about nerfing the burst damage on some classes? it isn't too high compared to themselves you know.)
    BY SARONITE BE PURGED!
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  19. #19

    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    What is shadowform cost at 80 again ?

    ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND !

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans kailtas's Avatar
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    Re: How come Shadowform is still so expensive?

    so ure not gona jump back and forward healing and damagin almost same time?
    Your greed, your foolishness has brought you to this end.

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