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  1. #21

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    No need to gem for dodge etc

    +16 dodge rating gems is nothing right?

    only like a fraction of a percentage reduction... total crap right?
    Reject common sense to make the impossible possible!

  2. #22

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare
    No need to gem for dodge etc

    +16 dodge rating gems is nothing right?

    only like a fraction of a percentage reduction... total crap right?
    Meh,Frigid Dreadplate is only 3% less chance to be hit.Who needs that?

  3. #23

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    bah screw it all

    who needs gear and talents

    ima tank naked 0/0/0

    if we wipe the healers are noobs
    Reject common sense to make the impossible possible!

  4. #24

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by neonanaski
    I'm guessing OP is considering this to go 50/0/21 for Unholy Blight in 3.1

    If you really want UB go 44/5/21 instead. That's really the only feasible build, and even then you are giving up alot of single target threat.
    So 44+5 is 50?

    And to OP... wow.....i.....just.....mean.....wow.............................

  5. #25

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bananero
    22,3 AP dude
    No... 5 AP per 180 armor. 4000 / 180 = 22.2 PER point in bladed armor. 22.2 * 5 = 111.1

  6. #26

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    The OP's decision is understandable but misinformed. People often make this sort of mistake when looking at armor damage reduction: they see "damage reduced" go from (example numbers for argument) 60% to 64% and think "Meh. 4% mitigation for 5 talent points? Not worth it". They may also notice that at different armor values a set amount of armor will change those numbers in a different way, leading to the myth that armor is on diminished returns.

    A clearer way to figure out how much damage reduction an armor change actually entails is to look at damage received instead of reduced. Using the numbers above, lets see how the different approaches look:
    Looking at reduction (on char sheet), we see a move from 60% to 64%, and think "4% damage reduction".
    Looking at received (100-char sheet val), we see a move from 40% to 36%, a 10% reduction, and this is how armor values actually work. The extra armor has shaved 10% off the hit we would have taken at our old armor value, a substantial improvement.

    Armor always provides the same reduction from damage received per point. Among other things, this means that Toughness retains its value at high gear levels (especially when Diminished Returns start hitting your avoidance stats, a brutal reality for DK's). Armor also takes the attackers level into account. Let's take a look at this with real numbers (rounded):

    Sample 70 stats
    Armor: 16k DR:60.2%, or HitTaken:39.8%
    With Toughness:
    Armor: 17.6k DR:62.5%, or HT: 37.5%
    Gain from Toughness: 2.3%

    Sample 80 stats
    Armor: 28k DR:64.7%, or HT: 35.2%
    With Toughness:
    Armor: 30.8k DR:66.9%, or HT: 33.1%
    Gain from Toughness: 2.1%

    The gain from toughness hangs out around 2-2.5% for virtually all gear levels. 2% isn't exactly a make-or-break margin, but it's one of the few sources of damage reduction that doesn't get hit by DR. Based on the OP's comments I have to assume they're not in the painful gear range where massive stat gains (say, 80 dodge rating) translate into comparatively small improvements (say, 0.3% dodge). DK's run into this issue fairly early in current raid gearing due to the limited options for damage reduction stat spread (and nothing in the patch is making this go away). Lacking the Shield stats and the TERRIBLE returns on parry rating conversions (and our laughable strength conversion ratio), we tend to hit Dodge DR fairly quickly. It's subtle around 22%, but at 26% (unbuffed) it gets brutal. Armor will remain an effective means of damage reduction gains throughout your raid career.

    This is to say nothing of the interplay between Armor and Stam, Bladed Armor, spell scaling from Armor, etc.

    If you can tank and have fun without Toughness, have a ball. Consider picking it back up when there's live raid content that can't be macro-tanked.
    Wow Forum accomplishment: autobanned for using the following phrase:
    My therapist notes my intrapersonal skills suffer from love of the grape.

  7. #27
    Bananero
    Guest

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by failoth
    No... 5 AP per 180 armor. 4000 / 180 = 22.2 PER point in bladed armor. 22.2 * 5 = 111.1
    Damn man, you are right... nobody´s pefect.

    I appreciate the latest post, made it more clear to me. Anyways im out of this forums. The latest months since WotlK launched all i found here is a serious bunch of whiners and rabid dogs... only a fist of people keeps constructive criticism. But those are tiny spotlights drunk inside a storm of a**holes

    The rest, die in a fire plis

  8. #28

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    I'm pretty sure our DK tank can tank naxx without this talent... Seriously, a DPS DK with tanking gear can tank naxx with ease...

  9. #29

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Aragaarn
    @OP:

    /facepalm
    Agreed. Toughness is like what 1 of the 10 or so tanking abilities spread so thin through the spec tree. Why skip it. DKs dont get shields remember, its making up for it

  10. #30

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bananero
    Im still waiting for even 1 of you to bring some more accurate research on wich 4k armor will help right now, and not "lol u noob" replies

    I still need to check whats the difference raid buffed, but as i know 1k armor gives around 1,1% physical damage reduction. 4k less armor means 4.4% less physical damage reduction

    From 62% to 66% damage reduction, the difference feels not much IMO. Anyways Devotion Aura and Ancestral Healing up helps to "almost" reach the armor cap
    well i mean if that's your take then just me all your 1 dollar bills in the mail.1 dollar isn't much right?
    “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    They're greedy soulless monsters for not handing me everything for my 15 moneys a month!

  11. #31

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bananero
    Im still waiting for even 1 of you to bring some more accurate research on wich 4k armor will help right now, and not "lol u noob" replies

    I still need to check whats the difference raid buffed, but as i know 1k armor gives around 1,1% physical damage reduction. 4k less armor means 4.4% less physical damage reduction

    From 62% to 66% damage reduction, the difference feels not much IMO. Anyways Devotion Aura and Ancestral Healing up helps to "almost" reach the armor cap
    If 4.4% extra mitigation means nothing to you as an endgame tank, you should probably go back to playing your hunter.

    Radar Controllers Do it in the Dark

  12. #32
    Deleted

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    4.4%?

    With 62%, every 100 damage becomes 38
    With 66%, every 100 damage becomes 34

    Taking 34 damage where you previously would have taken 38 damage is a mitigation improvement of somewhere between 11% and 12%

    5/5/5 are considered the vital tanking talents because they really are that good.

  13. #33

    Re: Toughness: Not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bananero
    Damn man, you are right... nobody´s pefect.

    I appreciate the latest post, made it more clear to me. Anyways im out of this forums. The latest months since WotlK launched all i found here is a serious bunch of whiners and rabid dogs... only a fist of people keeps constructive criticism. But those are tiny spotlights drunk inside a storm of a**holes

    The rest, die in a fire plis
    LOL so all you care about is if you take bladed armor(or whatever the name is) that u get extra ap?? XD
    With this attitude, why do you think people think you are retarded. Take a chill pill, this is a game and not reality or however your dead end macdonalds job is. You ask stupid questions, you get reactions that refers to your stupidity. A lot of people still took your question as a real question and tried to explain how armor mitation works. but all you can come up with as an answer is that you WANT people to show you a scientific excel research how much benefits you get from TOUGHNES... how about the magic word PLEASE? And then flaming everyone that tried to help you? Geez.. let me sat i'm happy u stop visiting this forum and we will all be happier if you gave up on tanking because, it looks like your 1 button spammer mage. Stick to your old class or just quit. I rather have a kid backing me up in endgame raid than someone with your lazy attitude. :-*

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