3.1 Holy

[tjanson]

You will NEVER, EVER, NEVER need +5% healing. In raid buff i have 58% holy light crits. During a patchwork Illumination accounted for 77000 mana, while replenishment was 20000. Can you guys pull your head our of your ass. At best points in prot are for situational build like OS3D. Rest of the time this spec is just stupid. Its either 51/2/18 or 51/0/20. The pick is yours. Any paladin that is not specing for a specific fight like OS3D and support 5/5 divinity will be a shame for paladins. One point in purifiying power like the OP is fucking fail.

Anyone who states that a healer will "NEVER EVER NEVER" need extra +healing is completely retarded, and he'll have a good time going OOM in Ulduar when he realizes that Blizzard does not want classes to be able to spam their biggest heal for the entirety of a fight(and rightly so, it allows bads to think they're great healers) and is in the process of nerfing us to accomplish this.

Said individual will have to choke on his own words when he realizes that when he actually has to use other spells, the extra throughput will be greatly helpful. Or maybe he'll just go back to gnawing on his own fingers. It really could go either way.

[Zalorius]

If aura mastery makes concentration aura give all effected players immunity to silence and interrupts, and base conc. aura puts us over 100% pushback resistance, why would anyone take improved concentration aura?

This is really just a question of curiousity, as I haven't been holy since tbc

[tjanson]

If aura mastery makes concentration aura give all effected players immunity to silence and interrupts, and base conc. aura puts us over 100% pushback resistance, why would anyone take improved concentration aura?

This is really just a question of curiousity, as I haven't been holy since tbc

Aura mastery is an ability with a cooldown, not a passive buff.

[Chickenbot]

AS I see it the choice is 5/5 Divinity or 3/3 Sanctity of Battle (3% crit) and 2/5 Divinity.

Personally I will take 3% crit over 3% more healing.

In terms of SP vs Crit. I use SP since all healing is scaled off SP. 3% greater healing is equivalent to 3% greater SP.

Spell Power 1=1
Critical Strike 1 % = 45.91 crit strike rating


Lets assume 2200 SP (ffs if you dont have that this is not even an issue)

2200 * 3% = 66 SP (3.5 SP gems)

3% Crit = 137.73 Crit rating (8.5 Crit gems)

So "item budget" wise the 3% crit is miles above 3% more healing.


If you have to pick from 3.5 extra SP gems or 8.5 extra Crit gems. which would you pick. If you say SP gems you need to just delete your healing set now and go ret.

[Xs]

I dno about that spec for PvE healing. I would lose bless hands, pickup 1 point in aura mastery and 1 point in lay on hands. Aura mastery is going to be an amazing talent. One example would be frozen blows with frost aura on Hodir, it helps out amazingly, also I dont see 3% crit being more effective than 5% healing. You basically saying your "hoping" your spells crit 3% more often instead of a guarantee all your heals including judgement of light hit 5% harder. What is the point in imp judgement? I never did understand PvE healers with that. Given you will probably have a ret paladin in raid, 2/2 might is still better imo in case of a no show.

I meant to switch 2 points from Heart of the Crusader to Imp BoM (we always have a Ret Pally).
Also its not 3% crit vs 5% healing, its 3% crit and 15% run speed, which imo is much better.

Imp Judgements is there for times when it resists and is obviously more useful than 2% parry or 2% crit which I won't be using outside of soloing.

The points in Blessed Hands are only there as they give the most reliable PvE gain, imp LoH is usually wasted by either not using it directly after the CD or not using the armor buff on someone who needs it, where as Hand of Salv is on CD most of the time. Also 60% reduced threat means our Tanks don't need to worry about threat stats and can focus purely on mitigation and health


@ Chickenbot
Its not Divinity x Spell Power, its total healing
So for a 10k Holy Light it makes up 500 of that, the reason its not worth it is because that 500 will usually be overheal, or an extra ~50 on to Glyph
So in actual fact its 3% crit vs ~200 SP (3 Points Divinity)

[YouMadMan]

Anyone who states that a healer will "NEVER EVER NEVER" need extra +healing is completely retarded, and he'll have a good time going OOM in Ulduar when he realizes that Blizzard does not want classes to be able to spam their biggest heal for the entirety of a fight(and rightly so, it allows bads to think they're great healers) and is in the process of nerfing us to accomplish this.

Said individual will have to choke on his own words when he realizes that when he actually has to use other spells, the extra throughput will be greatly helpful. Or maybe he'll just go back to gnawing on his own fingers. It really could go either way.

Seems like one individual here is too stupid to read his own fucking post. GOING OOM in ulduar, but you want to switch 3% crit into 3% healing. Congrats on contradicting your intention and being stupid. Every healing spell gives you back mana while it crits not only holy light. Wanna add anything else with one of your stupid builds?

this discussion was about the base build. Not some prot situational builds for situational fights.

[ZeroNamic]

I meant to switch 2 points from Heart of the Crusader to Imp BoM (we always have a Ret Pally).
Also its not 3% crit vs 5% healing, its 3% crit and 15% run speed, which imo is much better.

Imp Judgements is there for times when it resists and is obviously more useful than 2% parry or 2% crit which I won't be using outside of soloing.

The points in Blessed Hands are only there as they give the most reliable PvE gain, imp LoH is usually wasted by either not using it directly after the CD or not using the armor buff on someone who needs it, where as Hand of Salv is on CD most of the time. Also 60% reduced threat means our Tanks don't need to worry about threat stats and can focus purely on mitigation and health


@ Chickenbot
Its not Divinity x Spell Power, its total healing
So for a 10k Holy Light it makes up 500 of that, the reason its not worth it is because that 500 will usually be overheal, or an extra ~50 on to Glyph

I dont understand why people think LoH returns 10k mana, its returns around 4k.
This is from my combat log right now on PTR, as holy. 2/2 imp LoH regardless, with both LoH glyphs:
Quizno gains 3900 Mana From Glyph of Divinity.

[ZeroNamic]

AS I see it the choice is 5/5 Divinity or 3/3 Sanctity of Battle (3% crit) and 2/5 Divinity.

Personally I will take 3% crit over 3% more healing.

In terms of SP vs Crit. I use SP since all healing is scaled off SP. 3% greater healing is equivalent to 3% greater SP.

Spell Power 1=1
Critical Strike 1 % = 45.91 crit strike rating


Lets assume 2200 SP (ffs if you dont have that this is not even an issue)

2200 * 3% = 66 SP (3.5 SP gems)

3% Crit = 137.73 Crit rating (8.5 Crit gems)

So "item budget" wise the 3% crit is miles above 3% more healing.


If you have to pick from 3.5 extra SP gems or 8.5 extra Crit gems. which would you pick. If you say SP gems you need to just delete your healing set now and go ret.

Also im not sure why you are doing your math as 3% healing vs 3% crit when it should be 5% healing vs 3% crit? Doesnt change by much unless you are talking about something different.

[Deleted]

Seems like one individual here is too stupid to read his own fucking post. GOING OOM in ulduar, but you want to switch 3% crit into 3% healing. Congrats on contradicting your intention and being stupid. Every healing spell gives you back mana while it crits not only holy light. Wanna add anything else with one of your stupid builds?

Actually, holy shock doesn't. It always costs the same whether it crits or not. Besides, you can't just expect all your heals to be crits. When you don't crit the extra healing % comes in handy.

[Xs]

Also im not sure why you are doing your math as 3% healing vs 3% crit when it should be 5% healing vs 3% crit? Doesnt change by much unless you are talking about something different.

Its 3 Talent points vs 3 Talent points
The 2 extra points go into either Divinity or PoJ, with PoJ being very hard to set a true value for (in DPS terms its worth about 1-5% depending on the fight).

Actually, holy shock doesn't. It always costs the same whether it crits or not. Besides, you can't just expect all your heals to be crits. When you don't crit the extra healing % comes in handy.

Illumination
"or Holy Shock"

[YouMadMan]

77,000 mana from illumantion and 20,000 from replenishment on one patchwerk.. How long does it take you to kill him?

Random WWS parse.. http://wowwebstats.com/jftv144t1q1zo...=x1b611b6#ener
6min patchwerk.. Thats a LONG patchwerk, this guy got 36k from illumation given an average 38% crit with holy light, I'd like to see this WWS parse of your 77k illumation and 20k replenishment if you dont mind, I'm curious to see what your stats say.

Also if your getting 77k mana from illumation thats saying that 60% of your mana was returned from illumation. So, 77k mana returned is 60% of 128,333 mana roughly, and that is only accounting for healing crit's. Correct me if I'm wrong, I dont usually do to much number crunching I'm still trying to learn. =P

Seems the crit are extremly low. I have 40% crit unbuffed which mean my holy light have 46% chance to crit before Buffs. I didnt armory him but either he had a weird spec or still had his OS3D spec during this patch or undergeared.

[Chickenbot]

Okay, more math:

Holy Light:

5444 healing + 188% of SP = actual non crit heal

2200 SP = 9580 holy light

3% of that is 287.4

So actual heal is 9867.4

To get the same heal you would need 2352 SP or 152 more than original. That equates to 8 SP gems. Therefore...for HL only the item budget is equal--- This assumes the perfect HL also.

However, if you are losing tanks because you under healed by 287.4 then you fail. 3% crit is the win.

If you would like to further reduce to 0/5 Divinity for PoJ (I actually will also) you can. I made it a clear simple choice between the two for the sake of simplicity.


So to recap. 8 crit gems vs 8 SP gems (HL only), you still had better be picking 8 crit....or delete your lootz now.

[YouMadMan]

Actually, holy shock doesn't. It always costs the same whether it crits or not. Besides, you can't just expect all your heals to be crits. When you don't crit the extra healing % comes in handy.

Crit scale upward with your effective mana pool and the more crit you have the more it will account for your mana return. It will always be you #1 mana return depending on fight it will be 3-4 even 5 times more then replenishment. 3% crit from 40 to 43% is alot more then 0 to 3%. Its our form of mana regen. 3% healing over 3% crit is not a good choise for any fight to date in any expension. So far its not in any ulduar fights. And yes holy shock counts toward ilumniation read the tooltip plz and check your combat log.

[Xs]

Seems the crit are extremly low. I have 40% crit unbuffed which mean my holy light have 46% chance to crit before Buffs. I didnt armory him but either he had a weird spec or still had his OS3D spec during this patch or undergeared.

Since I'm bored

You'd need 130 seconds at an average of 1.3 Cast speed to get that Illumination return, with 100% crit ofc
If you double that to 260, thats a 4m 20s kill, with ~50% crit
To equal that replenishment return you'd need ~30k mana for the 260 second fight, which is a resonable amount
But still, thats chain casting Holy Light for 200 casts, costing about 100k mana after Illumination, so you'd need to get the other 50k from DP/Mana Tide/Mp5/Other procs


@ Chickenbot
For my calcs I added 25% extra to allow for Glyph of Holy Light, which makes it slightly more valuable, but not by much obviously as it would mostly still be over healing, and 25% is probably too much, as more than 50% of Glyph is usually over healing

[Quelana]

---

5444 healing + 188% of SP = actual non crit heal

---

Coef on HL is 166% according to: http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_power_coefficient, which makes the healing bonus even less overall.

[ZeroNamic]

Ok so now with a 51/0/20 spec on PTR's straight int stacked.. im at
24.3k mana
+2387 healing
40.56% crit
654 haste

to the next topic which is isnt getting activity in the other thread, I'm running with the Sapphire owl with 2x16int gems, and forethought talisman, but coming this week im debating buying the 90 int dark moon card and replacing the forethough talisman, any thoughts?

[Deleted]

Illumination
"or Holy Shock"

My bad then, remembered incorrectly.

[YouMadMan]

Since I'm bored

You'd need 130 seconds at an average of 1.3 Cast speed to get that Illumination return, with 100% crit ofc
If you double that to 260, thats a 4m 20s kill, with ~50% crit
To equal that replenishment return you'd need ~30k mana for the 260 second fight, which is a resonable amount


@ Chickenbot
For my calcs I added 25% extra to allow for Glyph of Holy Light, which makes it slightly more valuable, but not by much obviously as it would mostly still be over healing, and 25% is probably too much, as more than 50% of Glyph is usually over healing

I have 25500 mana, 40% crit and 2020 spellpower before raid buffs. The last kill i checked my logs was around 4 minute.

[Quelana]

Ok so now with a 51/0/20 spec on PTR's straight int stacked.. im at
24.3k mana
+2387 healing
40.56% crit
654 haste

to the next topic which is isnt getting activity in the other thread, I'm running with the Sapphire owl with 2x16int gems, and forethought talisman, but coming this week im debating buying the 90 int dark moon card and replacing the forethough talisman, any thoughts?

Darkmoon card is absolutely amazing and worth the cost.

[YouMadMan]

Ok so now with a 51/0/20 spec on PTR's straight int stacked.. im at
24.3k mana
+2387 healing
40.56% crit
654 haste

to the next topic which is isnt getting activity in the other thread, I'm running with the Sapphire owl with 2x16int gems, and forethought talisman, but coming this week im debating buying the 90 int dark moon card and replacing the forethough talisman, any thoughts?

Darkmoon card and soul of the dead is what i use. Soul of the dead account for a decent ammount of mana over a whole raiding night.