1. #1

    Proper Rotation Help!

    I've been Holy for so long that and I want some help with my shadow rotation! Someone told me that SWD isn't really used anymore? Is this true?

    Currently I use a priority rotation of: VE (at the start), VT, SWP, DP, MB, SWD, MF (as filler whenever I'm waiting for cooldowns).

    Is there anything I should change or will this rotation do just fine? Any advice would be appreciated!

  2. #2

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    first of all, there is no such thing as a rotation for a sp, there is only a priority.

    ve is waste of a gcd in most situations, if u still wanna cast it, do it while moving.
    Same goes for swd, it doesnt scale well so the better your gear gets the worse swd will be, just use it while moving
    Priority should be to keep your dots up and mb on cd, if that is the case, spam mf. Try to refresh dots as soon as they run out but dont refresh them before since you will lose ticks.
    And the last thing is: dont ever apply swp before there are 5 stacks of shadowweaving on the mob, mindflay refreshes swp with spellpower but not with weaving stacks, so if u apply it without any weaving stacks it will do 10% less dmg for the whole fight.
    BUT: if you get some special buffs, like thaddius charges, malygos sparks or loatheb spores, you should refresh swp manually since these buffs will be kept with refreshing by mf the whole fight.

    Happy facemelting

  3. #3

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotchocolate

    And the last thing is: dont ever apply swp before there are 5 stacks of shadowweaving on the mob, minflay refreshen swp with spellpower but not with weaving stacks, so if u apply it without any weaving stacks it will do 10% less dmg for the whole fight.
    BUT: if you get some special buffs, like thaddius charges, malygos sparks of loatheb spores, you should refresh swp since these buffs will be kepft with refreshing by mf the whole fight.
    Wow... I never would have even considered that. Thanks for advice!

  4. #4

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotchocolate
    first of all, there is no such thing as a rotation for a sp, there is only a priority.

    ve is waste of a gcd in most situations, if u still wanna cast it, do it while moving.
    Same goes for swd, it doesnt scale well so the better your gear gets the worse swd will be, just use it while moving
    Priority should be to keep your dots up and mb on cd, if that is the case, spam mf. Try to refresh dots as soon as they run out but dont refresh them before since you will lose ticks.
    And the last thing is: dont ever apply swp before there are 5 stacks of shadowweaving on the mob, mindflay refreshes swp with spellpower but not with weaving stacks, so if u apply it without any weaving stacks it will do 10% less dmg for the whole fight.
    BUT: if you get some special buffs, like thaddius charges, malygos sparks or loatheb spores, you should refresh swp manually since these buffs will be kept with refreshing by mf the whole fight.

    Happy facemelting
    Swd actually scales better than mind flay

  5. #5

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    True, but with any decent amount of Haste you will be able to get off 2 ticks on Mind Flay in 1 GCD, as opposed to 1 SW for the same GCD. SW should always be cast if you have to move and don't have anything else to cast though.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  6. #6
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    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heriana
    Swd actually scales better than mind flay
    Only with 4p Tier7.

  7. #7

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marticol
    shadow priest isn't really a rotation for bosses, instead it's a big if/then statement:

    • if trinket is off cooldown and shadow weaving is five stacks, then use trinket
    • else if no shadow word pain on the mob and shadow weaving is five stacks, then cast shadow word pain
    • else if devouring plague is off cooldown and shadow weaving is five stacks, then cast devouring plague
    • else if vampiric touch is off the mob or has about a second left, then cast vampiric touch
    • else if mind blast is off cooldown, then cast mind blast
    • else if shadow word death is off cooldown, then cast shadow word death
    • else cast mind flay

    the real start of the rotation is the fourth step (bolded), and there's more to be involved including when to use vampiric embrace and a trick called mind flay clipping where you immediately cancel the channel with every then statement listed above to maximise dps from spells with cooldowns or immediately canceling after casting it to quickly build stacks of shadow weaving when the fight begins.

    on trash, it's really just mash buttons as fast as you can, my rotation for each mob is normally vampiric touch, shadow word pain, mind blast, shadow word death, then alternate mind flay and mind blast until it's dead

    mind seer is also good for packs of four or more
    This was on page 2. Please search next time before opening a new topic.

  8. #8

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heriana
    Swd actually scales better than mind flay
    I'd love to know how you think SW scales better than MF when haste basically has 0 effect, and the SP coeffecient is exceptionally lower than MF... even with 4pc T7 I can't see SW scaling better than MF. And keep in mind that scaling isn't the same as higher DPS... it means the amount of damage both spells did with 0 gear compared to what they do with gear.

  9. #9
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    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    According to the T7 output of simulationcraft, SW scaled better than doing 1 tick Mind Flay, if you had 4p bonus.

    Without it (as any sane player would be), Mind Flay would scale better.

  10. #10

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Now I can see where that statement comes from but it's extremely misleading. For one MF isn't just 1 tick, its 3 ticks... so why compare 1 tick of MF vs SW?

    Perhaps at entry lvl gear you would to work out whether it's best to cast SW or MF if you can only afford 1 GCD's worth of time. I can see that application but the discussion is about scaling... and one of the scaling stats is haste.

    As you gain more and more haste you will be able to cast 2 ticks of MF with less of a delay effect on your next cast. In addition 2 ticks of MF will definitely scale better than SW, so there will come a point when the extra DPS MF offers will exceed the dps loss of the delay effect.

    Whether or not we can achieve enough gear to reach that point is a reasonable question. I don't have the numbers to prove it but I suspect we aren't far off as it is and with Uludar gear we are likely to pass it.

  11. #11
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    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Now I can see where that statement comes from but it's extremely misleading. For one MF isn't just 1 tick, its 3 ticks... so why compare 1 tick of MF vs SW?
    Because that was the subject?

    You wouldn't use SW any time else than where you could just get 1 Mind Flay tick off.

  12. #12

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    Because that was the subject?

    You wouldn't use SW any time else than where you could just get 1 Mind Flay tick off.
    Thats a narrow minded approach... the choice is to use SW or use MF and the use of MF can include delaying the next spell in the queue. If it's higher dps to cast MF for 2 ticks, even considering the delay effect on what is presumably your next MB, then limiting the scope of the discussion to 1 MF tick is misleading.

    And to be technical the statement made was "Swd actually scales better than mind flay", and considering there was 0 context made in that post I think it's reasonable for someone reading it to believe he was referring to the entire spell, ie. 3 ticks.

  13. #13
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    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    You can't go around saying Mind Flay scales 300% better than another spell, just because it ticks 3 times.

    In a fair comparison, you compare how good the single tick of Mind Flay scales with spell power, and compare it up against Shadow Word: Death. And for that comparison, I already explained the facts.

    And really, we discussed this so many times, there's no need to repeat the useless information every single time. I'm quite aware how the spells work, just write the important part and leave all the filler text out.

  14. #14

    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    Thats not what I said... the spell MF comprises of 3 ticks... so to isolate 1 tick and compare it against the full effect of another spell is misleading. Just because MF ticks 3 times, doesnt mean it's scaling factor is 300% better... all it means is if you isolate 1 tick you are only gaining 1/3 of whatever the scaling variable is.

    In the context of SW, you are comparing casting MF in place of SW... there are two solutions, 1 tick of MF or 2 ticks... 1 tick of MF will always be the exact same time as SW due to the inforced GCD. 2 Ticks of MF will always be greater than 1 GCD but the delay effect on your next MB is reduced dependand apon your haste.

    So there is a point when 2 ticks of MF will tick hard enough and quick enough in combination with MB being delayed for less time that will be > SW. For that reason in evaluating the scaling effect of MF you need to compare it to both 1 and 2 ticks of MF.

    The point is you present a very narrow perspective... for example, SW scales better than MF... i'm quite aware that quote wasn't yours but you were more than happy to support it being true. The actual true statement is SW scales better than 1 tick of MF, which is a completely different thing.

  15. #15
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    Re: Proper Rotation Help!

    You're basically repeating yourself in every post. Perhaps try narrow down the wall of text of half-useless information. That belong to EJ and other forums where they like to over complication life without reason.

    The actual true statement is SW scales better than 1 tick of MF, which is a completely different thing.
    Good, see you (finally) got the point.

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