[prot] do you plan a spec with Divine sacrifice?

[Daez]

I will be taking it, as there are no better places to invest points to get lower in the tree

Yes because Divine Sacrifice is so much better than divinity (5% more effective heals on you as a tank), divine strength, anticipation, toughness, and improved righteous fury. /sarcasm

[Daez]

He said [prot].
Let's make a quick example of a build (without any claims, beware):

I can't imagine taking your build without pursuit of justice and I'll take 15% to exorcism and 3% to crit over 3% damage (additional 3% on types) any day. Also, it looks like you bought into the 969 myth when you specced for 9 second judgments. The problem is that 969 hasn't existed since TBC when they shortened the cool down on all our abilities to 8 seconds instead of 9 seconds so 8 seconds on judgments is much easier to fit into a rotation.

[Daez]

I'm taking it for my Off-tanking spec (tanking trash and spawn adds on bosses), mainly because of the Sacred shield benefit of Divine Guardian, which requires Divine Sacrifice to obtain. Since Holy paladins can't stick multiple SSs on people any more, and they're likely to be healing the main boss tank, I'll use my own Sacred shield for the damage mitigation.

Other than the sacred shield glyph there is no reason to ever cast sacred shield on yourself. The problem is that you avoid taking damage when you are using sacred shield. When you avoid taking damage you are lessening the amount of healing done to you (and lets face it most of that lessened healing just goes to over healing anyways) and in return lessening the amount of mana you get back from spiritual attunement.

[Daez]

Right now on live, my Sacred Shield absorbs 1497 damage every 6 seconds while tanking, thats ~1500*5, so about 7500 damage absorbed over 30 seconds for 12% base mana, or with Divine Guardian its 18000 over 1 min for 12% base mana, thats 3k less damage a minute and at half the mana cost. Yes, DS is situational and as an MT you'll rarely ever use it, but DG is worth all 3 talent points so its worth it to get anyway.

This is all well and good but if your healers are actually doing their jobs the only thing you are doing is causing them to over heal while you rob yourself of mana from spiritual attunement. Why do you think discipline priests still suck in pve? Its the same reason.

[Daez]

If Blizz wanted us to use this while bubbled, why not just make the talent something like " when you bubble, you also absorb 30% of dmg caused to party/raid " ?

That is how the talent works now.

[Daez]

Why would you not take imp. devotion though? 3 points in that talent is better than 5 points in Divinity. 6% more healing on any target affected by the aura including yourself compared to the 5% you get from Divinity.

Its negated by any restoration druid in the raid. Please show me a raid that has no restoration druids in this day and age. The only thing you should be comparing about improved devotion aura is the 50% armor added to devotion aura which is 310 armor to all members of the raid.

[Lumidar]

I can't imagine taking your build without pursuit of justice and I'll take 15% to exorcism and 3% to crit over 3% damage (additional 3% on types) any day. Also, it looks like you bought into the 969 myth when you specced for 9 second judgments. The problem is that 969 hasn't existed since TBC when they shortened the cool down on all our abilities to 8 seconds instead of 9 seconds so 8 seconds on judgments is much easier to fit into a rotation.

apparently you don't read too many forums...

969 rotation was created during WotLK Beta as a rotation and DID NOT exist during TBC. why? Cus there was no 6sec cooldown back then. Hammer of hte Righteous and Shield of Righteousness are both WotLK abilities.


also it's been proven that 3% more damage is better than 3% crit. also that Exorcism should not be used in your rotation as the increase in threat is minimal compared to other skills and sticking with 969 is still optimal.

thanks for stopping by.

[Zarcob]

969 rotation was created during WotLK Beta as a rotation and DID NOT exist during TBC. why? Cus there was no 6sec cooldown back then. Hammer of hte Righteous and Shield of Righteousness are both WotLK abilities.

We've told him all this before. He's posted that ridiculous nonsense about the 969 just about every week and never reads, or doesn't comprehend, the reply.

Anyway, incorrect assumptions aside - I wouldn't really bother with divine sacrifice either. The old divine guardian wasn't too bad but the new HP cap makes sacrifice completely worthless in a 25 man raid. Even with a massive 50k health pool you're talking about 3k hp per person. It's hardly enough to matter in an AE fight and Hand of Sacrifice is far easier to use for single target emergency mitigation.

Not to mention that if you don't bubble or have a healer ready, it's an easy self-gib.

[Iselian]

The new Divine Sacrifice(/Guardian) will be in my build. I'm the MT of my raid, but that doesn't always put me in a position where I can't bubble. As many people have mentioned, Maly's Cyclone/Breath, 3D-Sarth, Sapph's air phase are only a few examples of where the current Divine Guardian can shine. In our 3Drake 10-man I used my bubble when I didn't have any adds (or when I could chain one with taunt/stun/taunt) and then we had our Holy/Prot healadin follow after mine. Made an incredible difference during the reflective damage phase for our dps to give that extra push.

A simple macro puts Divine Shield and Divine Guardian together. It will be used situationally, and that's fine with me. Divinity seems like 5% overheal still, more of a filler for holy to go farther into prot, should they wish; I'd prefer the raid-saver to the little bit of extra healing on me.

My build, complete with glyphs! (Yes, Glyph of Salvation is something I'm going to toy around with)

[arel00]

I don't because it doesn't fit into any of my specs.

My two preferred specs are...

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9742

This is mostly a trash spec designed to maximize threat while clearing trash.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9742

This is mostly a main tank spec designed to give a little bit more survivability and will be coupled with the lay on hands glyph to put lay on hands on an 11 minute cool down.

Going holy is utterly a waste of talent points for a Main Tank. You don't get any real benefit.

Also: you have no clue on what 969 is, so please go read some game information.

Third:

Yes because Divine Sacrifice is so much better than divinity (5% more effective heals on you as a tank), divine strength, anticipation, toughness, and improved righteous fury. /sarcasm

I can't imagine taking your build without pursuit of justice and I'll take 15% to exorcism and 3% to crit over 3% damage (additional 3% on types) any day. Also, it looks like you bought into the 969 myth when you specced for 9 second judgments. The problem is that 969 hasn't existed since TBC when they shortened the cool down on all our abilities to 8 seconds instead of 9 seconds so 8 seconds on judgments is much easier to fit into a rotation.

Other than the sacred shield glyph there is no reason to ever cast sacred shield on yourself. The problem is that you avoid taking damage when you are using sacred shield. When you avoid taking damage you are lessening the amount of healing done to you (and lets face it most of that lessened healing just goes to over healing anyways) and in return lessening the amount of mana you get back from spiritual attunement.

This is all well and good but if your healers are actually doing their jobs the only thing you are doing is causing them to over heal while you rob yourself of mana from spiritual attunement. Why do you think discipline priests still suck in pve? Its the same reason.

That is how the talent works now.

MULTIQUOTING.

Use these damned forum functions when answering multiple people. Posting five times just to inflate your post number doesn't make you cool, it makes you stupid.

On topic: after some recent experiences during raids with my guild, I'm becoming more confident with the rotation and gave it some thoughts. I think I would probabloy go for this spec with 3.1:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9742

Yet to decide where to put those two points. Alternatives are: PoJ, JotJ or Ardent Defender. Planning a spec to be offtank and ocasionally MT. Advices?

[Deleted]

Its negated by any restoration druid in the raid. Please show me a raid that has no restoration druids in this day and age.

Our guild runs often don't have a resto druid. We have only one such in the guild and he doesn't always wish to join the runs.

[Bluerelic]

Other than the sacred shield glyph there is no reason to ever cast sacred shield on yourself. The problem is that you avoid taking damage when you are using sacred shield. When you avoid taking damage you are lessening the amount of healing done to you (and lets face it most of that lessened healing just goes to over healing anyways) and in return lessening the amount of mana you get back from spiritual attunement.

We hardly even need spiritual attunement anymore, and if 1800 damage every 6 seconds somehow causes you to not have enough mana then you're doing something wrong. Maybe stop seal twisting or constantly rebuffing yourself and your mana will last. Right now on the ptr with Divine Plea working 100% of the time, with completely no buffs, you can sustain every part of your rotation on a training dummy except consecration. Add in BoSanc, Mana spring/BoW, replenishment, Judgement of Wis, Imp LotP, and Revitalize from resto druids, i will pay money to see you go out of mana with half those raid buffs on you, especially when the amount given by Divine Plea increases when you receive Kings, GotW, and AI. Mana will be a joke, and you sir are terrible, there is no reason to take more damage when tanking unless the fight is a gimmick or you have to sacrifice mitigation for threat, purposely taking more damage is just plain retarded.

And to say that the extra healing is just overheal anyway is just plain ignorant, so your healers overheal you on our current level faceroll content, so therefore you're gonna play terribly to give them something to do? Jesus Christ, read some patch notes, test out the ptr and stop expecting all new content to be just like the playground Naxx is.

[Deleted]

Other than the sacred shield glyph there is no reason to ever cast sacred shield on yourself. The problem is that you avoid taking damage when you are using sacred shield. When you avoid taking damage you are lessening the amount of healing done to you (and lets face it most of that lessened healing just goes to over healing anyways) and in return lessening the amount of mana you get back from spiritual attunement.

You have BoSanc, you have an almost never-ending Divine Plea, AND you can use Seal of Wisdom if you seem to be running out of mana. But oh noes, you want to have things easy for YOU, right? So your thought process is: "I want to take more damage so I won't be using Sacred Shield. Screw the healers, I'll let them do the job for me."

That's a very selfish way of thinking, there's always others in the group/raid besides you and healers don't exist just to keep your sorry ass alive.

[Slim_Jim]

How about if Holy paladin would take the talent and use it with bubble on right time?

[Deleted]

How about if Holy paladin would take the talent and use it with bubble on right time?

It is useful talent for holy and ret paladins, yes. Though, if it's a lot of AoE they might kill themselves.

[Bluerelic]

I personally will have Divine Sacrifice, but as i stated in a previous post only because I feel Divine Guardian is worth 3 talent points, not because of its super usefulness. This is what I'm currently planning:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9742

I may take Glyph of Avenger's Shield if I find there's no more clump and aoe in Ulduar, and I might drop Glyph of SoV if I get the tanking mace (im a dwarf 5 free expertise). I only really ever MT, but if I were to be trash tanking i would definitely not use glyph of AS, and i would use HotR.

Also, why are so many of you sacrificing mitigation talents for threat talents, especially talents like ardent defender, my AD kicks in at almost exactly 15k health, that's becoming extremely difficult for bosses to leap frog anymore, sure some of them hit for ~20k, but its still very likely you'll see <15k at least once before you hit the floor. JotJ is kind of like Imp devo aura, neither of which i really care for, since there are going to be some fights where you could have done with out having them. But I'm thinking more for the 10 mans, like 3d10 level of difficulty where its nearly impossible to have another tank attacking your mob and resto druids have an extremely hard time handling the healing to be done.

[cappytoi]

I advice you to check boss info at home page, many bosses do aoe and stuff. Pretty obvious one where you can use it;

Auriaya: Sonic Screech
A Sonic Shockwave that deals 231250 to 268750 Physical damage to all enemies in its path. The Shockwave damge is split between all targets in its path. 50000 yd range, 2.5 sec cast, 4 sec cooldown

Use it as an OT when feral defender hasn't showned up yet.



There is many many more area's that can be used in ulduar just I cba to write, sorry