New Ret ideas because class bores me...

[Collin120423]

So while waiting for my class to start I got bored and started thinking up some ideas for the Ret spec...some of these might bleed over to other specs but since i play ret its where i have the most knowledge.

DISCLAIMER: I do not really think any of these would be implemented but i was trying to come up with ways that the ret spec was a little more fun and less "o that CD is up let me hit it now"

DISCLAIMER 2: i suck at coming up with names so they in turn also suck

Crusader's Shield: Allows the Paladin to equip a 2 handed weapon in the main hand and a shield in the off hand.

Divine Barricade
The Paladin bunkers down with his/her shield reflecting the next 4 damaging attacks back at random enemy targets. Does not affect attacks from behind. Does not break CC effects
-Channeled
-6 sec duration
-75 sec CD

Rebuttal (Passive)
When the Paladin blocks or partially blocks an attack there is a 5/10/15% chance to refresh the CD on Judgement and Crusader Strike (was also thinking it could just effect Exorcism since it has a lengthier CD and now part of our rotation)

Enchanted Divinity
Imbues the Paladin's shield with divinity increasing the damage of the next Judgement by 30% or the healing by the next Flash of Light by 50%
-2 min CD

Charge of the Crusader
Fills the Paladin with zeal increasing movement speed by 25%, attack speed by 40%, and cannot be stopped unless killed. However, the Paladin cannot cast any healing spells and the use of Divine Shield is locked out for the duration.
-25 sec duration
-5 min CD
-May not be purged or spellstolen

Improved Charge of the Crusader
While under the effects of CotC healing received is increased by 10/20%, stamina and strength is increased by 5/10%, and the cooldown is reduced by 30/60 seconds

Holy Absorption
Allows the Paladin to have a chance to block ranged magical attacks by a percent equal to 60% of their current block chance

Glyph of the Righteous (used to be Spotlight)
Places a holy glyph on the ground. When a party or raid member stands on this glyph they share CC effects with the Paladin but the duration for each effect is reduced by 50%. Also, haste and healing effects are increased by 15% but 20% damage taken by one member is shared with the other.
-2 min duration
-3 min CD

EDIT (new ideas)

Fallen Hero
When the Paladin dies all party members within 30 yards are healed for 30% of the Paladin's max HP over 12 seconds.
-Ticks 3 times (every 4 seconds)
-Crit chance based on the Paladin's
-Yes I am saying a tick has a chance to crit

Wrath of the Passed
When a party member dies within 30 yards of you, you gain Retribution. Retribution increases your haste by 10% and causes 50% of your Crusader Strike damage and your Divine Storm damage to be considered Holy.
-Lasts 30 seconds
-Haste can stack 3 times

Fist of the Heavens (ya i kno we got divine storm but i still like this way better so bear with me)
Brings the wrath of the heavens down upon your enemy striking them with a Holy Bolt dealing 1000 + (SP*.2) + (AP*.2) and interrupts spellcasting for 2 seconds (was also thinking instead of the spell interrupt it could have a daze effect but whatever works)
-20 sec CD
-20 yard range
-51 point Ret Talent
-SoC should be baseline and you can move all other tiered abilities down. (Sanc Ret goes to where SoC is, Repentence goes to where Sanc Ret is.....and so on)

Imp FotH
Causes the Holy Bolt to spread out from the enemy it struck healing any party or raid members or damaging any enemy players for 20/40/60% of the damage done and reduces the CD by 2/3/5 seconds

Feel free to tweak numbers as you see fit and leave feedback. Once again just kind of random thoughts that might make the class a bit more fun to play.

UPDATE 2:
Justice of the Divine
Enables your Ret Aura the ability to crit by 33/66/100% of your crit chance and when your Ret Aura or Eye For An Eye abilities crit there is a 8/16/25% chance to place a debuff on your target allowing the use of your Hammer of Wrath
-Debuff lasts for 4 seconds (That way you can't get 2 in on the same debuff)

Improved Crusader Strike
Causes your Crusader Strike to ignore 10% of your opponents armor and places a debuff on your target increasing Holy damage taken by 2%
-Debuff lasts 10 seconds
-Can stack 5 times

[Adamson]

Distance closer or short cooldown interrupts is all I would like. tbh I don't think we need a whole lot more.

I mean, I could want to be a DK and have:

Distance closer.
Spammable snares.
Silence
Short CD interrupt
Pet that stuns
metric fuck tons of mitigation (bubble is pathetic)
Self healing superior to any melee/healer hybrid class.
And slowing effects on an unlimited resource.

[Collin120423]

ya i agree that would be nice but unfortunately i doubt that will happen. blizz doesnt wanna make all classes similar. and my CotC idea was kinda meant to be our distance closer just in a slightly different way than charge/death grip

[tjanson]

Distance closer or short cooldown interrupts is all I would like. tbh I don't think we need a whole lot more.

I mean, I could want to be a DK and have:

Distance closer.
Spammable snares.
Silence
Short CD interrupt
Pet that stuns
metric fuck tons of mitigation (bubble is pathetic)
Self healing superior to any melee/healer hybrid class.
And slowing effects on an unlimited resource.

Someone sounds bitter...

Actually, I have to say I kinda liked your ideas, OP. Not that they'll ever get implemented, but they're interesting.

[Collin120423]

thanks. ya i was goin for a bit more out of the box rather than what i thought blizz would actually do. unfortunately i cant even post these on the WoW forums cuz my accnt got banned but o well...if anyone wants to repost them there feel free...just pop me some credit :P

[Kuthumii]

Rebuttal (Passive)
When the Paladin blocks or partially blocks an attack there is a 5/10/15% chance to refresh the CD on Judgement and Crusader Strike (was also thinking it could just effect Exorcism since it has a lengthier CD and now part of our rotation)

How would this help Ret at all? We don't use a shield therefore we cannot block. The refresh Judgment would make a Protadin happy though.

I enjoy threads like this. I'll do some brainstorming while I am suppose to be working and post my ideas!

[Collin120423]

How would this help Ret at all? We don't use a shield therefore we cannot block. The refresh Judgment would make a Protadin happy though.

I enjoy threads like this. I'll do some brainstorming while I am suppose to be working and post my ideas!

Check the idea I have right above that ability

[Alenko]

How would this help Ret at all? We don't use a shield therefore we cannot block. The refresh Judgment would make a Protadin happy though.

I enjoy threads like this. I'll do some brainstorming while I am suppose to be working and post my ideas!

reread what he has as the first new ability

[Raptorg]

How are you intending to block attacks when you aren't even being targetted?

PvP? Lol, yeah.. Like that's going to happen..

[Collin120423]

How are you intending to block attacks when you aren't even being targetted?

PvP? Lol, yeah.. Like that's going to happen..

well looking at it from the pvp stand point...which i mainly was...it is still not a terrible idea to go after pallys, especially ret since once the bubble is down we have little defenses. along with the new warrior talent now 2 classes can counter our bubble. im not saying thats a lot but it could very well alter a few strats. i know i for one have gone after the ret pally a few times because we are so used to not being targeted i might be able to get the burst in before he bubbles and get a quick kill.

in terms of pve, well ya never know when you might need an OT for 10 seconds while you brez the fallen tank and hell, if anything it will just give us some extra stats since we dont used ranged weaps and our librams are terribad. every little bit helps if you ask me and this would allow for a different play style in terms of what damaging abilities they could put in and our rotation.

imo paladins have always used shields as a sign of their class but also have always been in the front lines taking the damage and dishing it back out. since you dont have any slow hard hitting one hand weapons to go along with our CS and DS i figured this is another option

[jasje]

i like this treads

[kailtas]

i especialy liked the part about ret with a 2H + shield, ofc there shud be dps shields then :P

fully reflecting next 4 attacks can be OP, BUT not if u stand perfectly stil and u cant move, this would open for other classes to attack from behind but stil be extremely effective vs a mage's arcane barage or pyro.
this would in other words make casters think before acting.

this whole concept would require paladins to have an increased chance to block attacks but not with tank like block rating.
the amount of damage blocked could be from STR only

charge of the crusader seems extremely OP vs DK, warr, rogue and feral druids + any other classes that cant rly kite.
this would bring us to a 140% movespeed + on top of that we cant be stoped for 25 sec and we attack 40% faster.

this would result in.

1. stay and attack, wont work cause the paladin hits 40% faster than u + hiting him results in sometimes instant judgements.

2. run away, wont work and on top of that ure showing him the back and u cant dodge or parry incoming attacks.


holy absorbation is also a Powerfull but not overpowered ability.
give it a small chance to reflect the attack fully and follow the direction of the target and hit in a 10 yard radius of where the attacker used to stand.
like an exploding effect with damage.

spotlight of the crusader
yet again powerfull ability yet not overpowered.

[Grimbold]

This looks more like Protadin talents :P

[Horn]

I also like the 1h/shield combo, hell we're copying warrior talents in a gimp'd form anyway and this looks fun. :P
Btw distance closers/snares/better defensive abilities/interrupts/interesting dps talents arn't coming until divine shield is taken away, which probbaly won't be happening any time soon. Love how a seemingly OP ability holds us back so much

[Collin120423]

i especialy liked the part about ret with a 2H + shield, ofc there shud be dps shields then :P

fully reflecting next 4 attacks can be OP, BUT not if u stand perfectly stil and u cant move, this would open for other classes to attack from behind but stil be extremely effective vs a mage's arcane barage or pyro.
this would in other words make casters think before acting.

this whole concept would require paladins to have an increased chance to block attacks but not with tank like block rating.
the amount of damage blocked could be from STR only

charge of the crusader seems extremely OP vs DK, warr, rogue and feral druids + any other classes that cant rly kite.
this would bring us to a 140% movespeed + on top of that we cant be stoped for 25 sec and we attack 40% faster.

this would result in.

1. stay and attack, wont work cause the paladin hits 40% faster than u + hiting him results in sometimes instant judgements.

2. run away, wont work and on top of that ure showing him the back and u cant dodge or parry incoming attacks.


holy absorbation is also a Powerfull but not overpowered ability.
give it a small chance to reflect the attack fully and follow the direction of the target and hit in a 10 yard radius of where the attacker used to stand.
like an exploding effect with damage.

spotlight of the crusader
yet again powerfull ability yet not overpowered.

ya the downside for the barricade spell is that u cant move. you take a gamble hoping that you can think 2 steps ahead of your opponent and it will help reward players that think ahead

yea the chance to block would have to increase but i was afraid that if you get it in the 15 - 25% range then your basically destroying melee dps while also making some of these abilities overpowered. what i wanted with us equipping shields was less that we were blocking attacks but more that we A: got some stats to help with our DPS issues and catch up with other classes that have that "extra slot" for stats since non of our librams add stats and B: boost the armor and help promote the whole "defensive hybrid" that we are supposed to be

i also see your point with CotC but my thinking was that our 40% attack speed was only white attacks and our burst comes from our judge --> CS --> DS (insert white attacks in between) and not so much from us swinging. I suppose it could be changed so that movement impairing effects could still work or its counter is judge of justice to reduce it back to 100%. also lets not forget that maybe this is to force other classes to use their defensive capabilities and/or items. rogues can vanish and sprint away, warriors can go to D stance, ferals can bear form or sprint away and stealth and DKs....well DKs dont need any help we all kno that story :P NOTE: i didn't intend for the move speed to stack with PoJ so it would be 125%

i find your thoughts on the "exploding effect" kind of cool. i would hope the missile speed is somewhat quick because chasing an arcane mage and this being used could be pointless haha. of course think of the outcry if, lets say, a rogue and a MS warrior are on u....this ability coupled with ret aura and E4E would just scream QQ

ya the spotlight is another "should i use this now or should i not" type of ability. using against some comps could really mess u up since 2 people will be sheeped or cycloned and that can really open some windows against teams that are paying attention both offensively (stop our heals) or defensively (get the ret pally off u or stop that caster from utilizing the haste and healing buff).

[Collin120423]

I also like the 1h/shield combo, hell we're copying warrior talents in a gimp'd form anyway and this looks fun. :P
Btw distance closers/snares/better defensive abilities/interrupts/interesting dps talents arn't coming until divine shield is taken away, which probbaly won't be happening any time soon. Love how a seemingly OP ability holds us back so much

well more and more abilities that we get are locking out DS...which CotC also does. besides...DPS talents being used along with DS is just a waste of mana and time if u ask me

[Collin120423]

Had a chat with a buddy of mine earlier tonight. He's been leveling his first paladin (as Retribution), and we came into the discussion regarding Crusader Strike, and how crappy of a 41-point talent it really is.

Crusader Strike: "An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage."
Glyph of Crusader Strike (Major): "Use: Reduces the mana cost of your Crusader Strike ability by 20%."

First off, the base ability is utter garbage. Second, it's mana cost isn't really much of an issue since Retribution Paladin's (running proper rotations) don't really have much of a mana issue anymore. Perhaps something a bit more interesting for the glyph?

Perhaps increase Crusader Strike's chance to critically hit, or regenerate mana when you critically hit?

During my discussion, I suggested Crusader Strike be made baseline, and trainable at level 10 or 12. Paladin's of any spec, really doesn't have many attacks at all, until higher levels. It would not be unreasonable to make Crusader Strike a baseline ability that any Paladin can use, and at a much lower level.

In turn, perhaps give Retribution an "Overpower"-like ability, as 41-pointer. Not necessarily as effective as the Warrior-counterpart, but definitely quite a bit more fun than the currently extremely bland and boring Crusader Strike. The ability itself needs an additional function, rather than just "110% weapon damage". I'd be okay with it doing less weapon damage, and have an added effect to it, such as increasing haste or chance to critically hit, or even a bit of armor penetration, since Blizzard seems intent on making more and more of our "Holy" spells, Physical.

i think its no doubt that CStrike is terrible for a 41 pointer...with our change for WotLK i wouldnt mind it going back to what it was and making it do holy damage. its ability to cut through armor would be enough for me to be honest.

i personally wanted something new and sorta crazy like "When your Crusader Strike critically hits you gain Blessed Favor allowing for 50% of healing done on your target to be applied to you" or "When your CS crits your target is afflicted with Holy Burden. When that target uses any ability that requires mana they take damage equal to the amount of mana used".

im tired of things being the same and want somethin new lol

[Marithas]

id also like to give an idea
11 point talent

Wrath of the Martyr:

Imbues the paladin with holy energy to pulse x-y damage in a 10 yard radius every 4 seconds for 20 seconds


-able to crit



this would fix protadins lack of burst aoe and ret something to invest points into

[Collin120423]

If you're tired of ret, then respec to a prot 1h/damage build and wear STR gear. Ret is never going to 2h and shield, that's just plain ridiculous... what's more ridiculous is why I'm bothering to even respond to this.

As for the Barricade idea - anybody attacking you is just going to see you 'bunker down' and just stop casting/attacking.

Try thinking things through a bit more. OR rather, get some better gear then think things through a bit more. 99% of the hastily typed, overpowered BS ideas people come up with in forums for their class are the result of a humiliating PVP defeat against a better geared player, or being gang raped in Arena because your team mates suck.

well someone is rather hostile in a forum post that isnt anything but sharing ideas and trying to further this game if they could.

im not tired of just ret im tired of all specs...granted i havent really done much prot at all but i have done holy thru vanilla and some BC and specced it a few times in wrath. i love the class idea and i feel it fits my playstyle quite nicely so i dont wanna just give up on it, id rather attempt to make it better.

im sure people would have thought warriors wielding 2 "ashkandis" (i kno u cant but u get my drift) was rediculous in BC but look what happened. it could easily be implemented with a attack speed penalty or something of the sort.

for the barricade idea...if what you say is true then wouldnt the warriors spell reflect be pointless? wouldnt a caster see it and just not cast for its duration? but thats not the case, you arent always able to take EVERYTHING into account when your playing and things are happening fast...if you are supposed to try and burn down a target ASAP then you wont be wondering "did they pop some sort of ability i should stop casting for". its a defensive ability that is designed to help slow the pace when things are going too fast, and not just for the attackers but for the paladin as well (since they cannot move).

what do i need to think through more? these arent things im writing in a formal proposal to give to blizz, these are meant to get tweaked and talked about on the forums, but not by people like you who just completely destroy any ideas and find one bad flaw in them to dismiss them. instead why don't you tell me how a 2 hander and shield could be viable, tell me what to change with barricade to make it "viable" or give your own suggestions instead of just being dragged along by blizz with what they want to do.

yes my gear isnt the best but i could easily run resto shammy / disc priest up to at LEAST 1800 - 1900 and get gear...i have a job and school to contend with so im not able to play as much as i did in S2 when i got 2K+ with MS warr and disc priest (yes back when ret was not that good in arena so dont question my abilities).

to everyone else who has responded to my post you guys have been great with your comments, criticism, and questions. i hope you all keep it up as im interested in how to change my ideas and which ones you guys come up with.

right now its still just all wishful thinking and a fun thing to discuss as i continue working on boring things such as *sigh* economics

[Collin120423]

id also like to give an idea
11 point talent

Wrath of the Martyr:

Imbues the paladin with holy energy to pulse x-y damage in a 10 yard radius every 4 seconds for 20 seconds


-able to crit



this would fix protadins lack of burst aoe and ret something to invest points into

ya know what this reminds me of? if anyone has played DotA, Leshrac's ultimate that continuously does pulse damage while draining mana...gets rather nasty in a group with lots of mana regen.

i think this would help pve damage a bit since its more constant and predictable...be hard to say it has the ability to burst someone down in pvp since...well...you kno its coming.

its def a new idea and would be rather fun...of course you need to add its limitations. maybe something like

slows the paladin's movement speed by 10% (so ur still above 100% with PoJ) and drains 25 mana/sec or somethin