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  1. #21

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swedishcow123
    And I've never been beaten by a disc-priest, not even on tank&spanks where their healing power is said to shine.
    ??? i think your playing the wrong class tbh, if you want to win meters go roll dps orso. Our job is too keep ppl alive. And many factors play into that.

    For example a Sarth 3D fight, with sarth being tanked by a DK.
    In most cases this will req 2 healers for the DK, and most of the times that will be a Disc priest. And not for the whole mitigation stuff, since a pali will provide that.
    But more for the burst healing req after a flamebreath. Not too mention a shield every time sarth casts it. (thus enabling the weakend soul healing buff).
    A well timed Power infusion for the pali/drood healer is nice too.

    There are many other encounters where alot more goes on than raw HPS.
    And again: in the end 1 thing matters. That the job gets done, thats why i dont really bother with meters. Only thing i do with them is to check who healed what and who and why.

  2. #22

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    I didn't bother to read most of the replies, since a post like this surely demands the "lolz wtf why spam coh".

    Yet i think a valid question was asked where i saw no one refering to: how to increase your output (regaurdless to the spell you use) as a holy priest. So you said you have t7.5 i assume you refer to the 25m t7, which isn't the best in slot for increasing your output as holy. Having 2 parts is nice for the 6 charges of prom, rest of the parts have less stats that will not help to increase your healing output (HpS). items such as malygos head, KT legs which have a high amount of spell power, and also have crit and int/spirit would be much preferable to equip in order to increase your output as holy.

    The stats you should refer to in order to increase your output are: spell power, crit, spirit (most highest spell power gear already has spirit so i just added it inside). When it comes to trinkets you should go for the max spell power on trinket other then regen abilities (meaning trinkets with high spell power and none or low regen value), i would regem all my gems to 19 spell power regardless to socket in order to increase my out put (if the socket bonus is + 7 spell power i would consider a spellpower + crit/spirit <-- acording to color gem). All this in order for your heals to hit and crit for a higher amount.

    Every encounter sometimes require different things: some require you to be able to heal for a long period of time - where you would prefer the regen gear, other times you have short encounters where mana doesn't mana and every heal should heal for a big amount, i'll recomend for these ones to just go full spell power/crit gear.

  3. #23

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    It's closer to 40%. And it's the fact that they stay focussed whereas you become the opportune healer wherever you need to. It's not the meter that makes them shine, it's the fact that they can do your job so much easier/better.
    Don't bother with him, he won't change his mind. Because he's playing a different game - it's called "be first on meters". If Recount had a category "prevented player deaths" he'd probably change to disc to top this way cooler chart than just "healing done".

  4. #24

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taleas
    1. MT usually is standing a bit away from the rest of the group...
    2. Should have been obvious...
    3. my low crit rating...


  5. #25

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Never mind guys, I figured it out myself. There are some good insights in this thread regarding improving circle-of-healing output in general, but nothing could explain the problem I had with circle. I dropped all the right hints, but nobody saw it ("5x my circle output", "circle=for me an heal-for-almost-nothing spell"). Positioning, carefully selecting a healing target and higher crit rating also may play a role, but at this magnitude? Again: my circle of healing output was (at least) five times lower than it should be! So it had to be a major problem ...
    Major yes, but not necessarily complex. It's incredibly stupid, really. Oh boy, had we have a laugh once at the expense of another holy colleague who was using greater heal RANK 1 for days ... ;D

    Well, re-speccing accidents happen :

    So, now with circle rank 7 my output is as it should be. And even though many people like to abuse recount for dps (or, even more silly, hps-) contests - there is something to be said for it as a tool to check efficency ...

  6. #26

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belamy_G
    Don't bother with him, he won't change his mind. Because he's playing a different game - it's called "be first on meters". If Recount had a category "prevented player deaths" he'd probably change to disc to top this way cooler chart than just "healing done".
    Odd, I thought healing people, making their hp not reach 0 prevented their death.

    Hmm, need to rethink my healing.

  7. #27

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    And you justify optimum by what shows up on a meter?
    It's the only way to measure healing with the tools we have, if we had better data I'd use it.
    But healing meters does show what spells people use and how effectively they are using them.
    You fail to understand the concept of a disc priest.
    I don't even understand their use in pve.
    It's closer to 40%. And it's the fact that they stay focussed whereas you become the opportune healer wherever you need to. It's not the meter that makes them shine, it's the fact that they can do your job so much easier/better.
    Ah, math, I like math, let's analyze shall we?

    You have 2 ways to absorb damage, Power Word: Shield, which demands that you know which people are gonna take damage, and often this isn't the case, but let's say you do, that's a 5k absorb every 4 seconds that takes away 1 global cooldown and you can't even shield the same target, you need 4+ targets that take damage consistanly to get the full effect, hardly plausible.

    Then we have Divine Aegis that absorbs 30% of a crit heal, doesn't stack with multiple crits, and is worthless if the target doesn't take additional damage.

    So with 50% crit your healing can be increased by 15% (If further damage is taken) plus whatever the Power Word: Shield absorbs.

    So unless Shield, a spell which can be cast every 4 seconds can be 22% of your total healing, you'll never reach 40% of additional healing being neglected by healing meters.

    But there's an even easier way of claiming you're worthy of a raid spot, link a WWS, where you can calculate your Absorbed amount by checking how much mana you gained from Rapture.

    If you can beat the "mindless spammers" like myself after that, I'll start listening, but no disc healer has ever backed up their statements with facts, ever.

  8. #28

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Healing meters mean shit because they don't show the difference between healing 9 people from 90% to 100% or 1 person from 10% to 100%. The first doesn't matter, it's the second thing that counts.

    Example?

    Someone in the raid takes damage. I put a renew on him, what will heal him to full before he'll take damage again. Then someone else quickly spams CoH and an instant flash heal on him, making my renew overheal. This person will show up higher on healing meters, but is he a better healer? No he isn't. We might as well replace him with dps, because he's not contributing in any way to the raid.

  9. #29

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swedishcow123
    I don't even understand their use in pve.
    Of course you don't, because they don't touch meters. *gasp*
    You have 2 ways to absorb damage, Power Word: Shield, which demands that you know which people are gonna take damage, and often this isn't the case, but let's say you do, that's a 5k absorb every 4 seconds that takes away 1 global cooldown and you can't even shield the same target, you need 4+ targets that take damage consistanly to get the full effect, hardly plausible.
    That shield is active for 30 seconds. Hello Vortex. Hello Frost Aura. Not to mention, that 5k is a 7k. And we have a 25% haste buff after that. And after the patch, that 4 seconds goes down to a GCD

    Then we have Divine Aegis that absorbs 30% of a crit heal, stacks with multiple crits up to 10k, and is amazing at preventing alot of damage, guaranteed on the Main Tank.
    Fixed.

    But there's an even easier way of claiming you're worthy of a raid spot, link a WWS, where you can calculate your Absorbed amount by checking how much mana you gained from Rapture.
    Until 3.1, this doesn't really work because Rapture accounts for healing done too.

    If you can beat the "mindless spammers" like myself after that, I'll start listening, but no disc healer has ever backed up their statements with facts, ever.
    Edit: Someone slap me, why the fuck am I feeding the troll?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  10. #30

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Also, it should be mentioned that Divine Aegis takes the number of the heal, not the effective healing done..

    So, if you heal for 10k(easy math), you'll automatically have a 3000 absorbing shield, even if you had only 7k effective healing.

    I tested this in particular by critting on myself with full health, and then taking damage from a mob.


    Disc is a wonderful spec when it comes to single target healing, very underrated, but very very gear sensitive. If you don't have the crit to back it up, it's rather weak compared to Holy's raw healing power.

  11. #31

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    A lot of top guilds are switching to a 1 disc 1 holy priest setup because Disc has become VERY useful in PvE. If you can't see why, I'm sorry for your guild. Fights where there will be giant amounts of incoming damage to the MT are made considerably easier with a Disc priest. Disc doesnt top meters but they would do very well if effective absorbs were counted. Meter topping is mainly a concern for raid healers. Did you react fast and with the right spells? Disc isn't a playstyle for everybody, personally I have a hard time focusing on 1-3 targets (tanks), I like to be multi-tasking but a LOT of people are having tons of fun with Disc!

  12. #32

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Knowing the fights beforehand helps a lot with aoe healing.(This will be even more important if Disc gets aoe bubble) If you suddenly see 10 people drop low at once your probably going to panic and just click on the first one of them on your list for circle. This can be effective because most aoe's are concentrated in the same area, but to be even more effective it's better to know when the AOE is coming and where. If it's a raid wide aoe I'll usually position myself in a place that can reach 5+ people and cast it on myself to avoid wasting time looking for peoples location. Reaction time should only really be important on trash that aoe's and seems more random. So many fights you can top the meters simply from experience.

  13. #33

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    Of course you don't, because they don't touch meters. *gasp*That shield is active for 30 seconds. Hello Vortex. Hello Frost Aura. Not to mention, that 5k is a 7k. And we have a 25% haste buff after that. And after the patch, that 4 seconds goes down to a GCD
    Fixed.
    Until 3.1, this doesn't really work because Rapture accounts for healing done too.
    Edit: Someone slap me, why the fuck am I feeding the troll?
    Odd, I never said Disc wasn't viable after 3.1, right now they're not viable imo, but after 3.1, with spammable shields, semi-perma 25% haste and stacking Divine Aegis (up to 10k) they will be a pretty nice healer.

    But you're playing disc now aren't you? Why not discuss the current situation and not the next patch.

    The thing you said about rapture is odd though, as you have all the variables to do the calculations, you know healing done by the spells Aegis triggers from and you know mana gained, so absorbed amount is (RaptureManaGain*40)-HealingDone

    In the next patch this will actually be impossible, as Rapture won't affect the shield from Divine Aegis

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Hey guys! How you doing?



    Kelesti, bring your Disc crusade elsewhere!
    You ruined the thread!
    Not that it was any good, still..

  15. #35

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Venelar
    It's simple really. Raid buffed at ~30% crit you proc holy concentration a TON. Alot of your heals are hasted already (HC proc). No to mention the free heals from surge of light with all of those crits.
    You completely missed the point... as I pointed out, Serendipity, HC, IHC and spirit regen mechanics are undergoing major changes. Crit will no longer return anywhere near the amount of mana it was when 3.1 goes live. This is due to the fact that OOFSR regen has been severely nerfed, HC won't get you OOFSR and serendipity will no longer return mana.

    So please explain to me again how crit is more valued now than it was pre 3.1?

  16. #36

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    And just to throw in my 2cents about healing meters.

    1. They are incredibly misleading... like all data it needs to be put into context and people that simply link healing meters and make the assumption it tells the entire story are extremely narrow minded. Just a few examples, specific healers are usually assigned to heal specific targets, if that target takes less damage then of course those healers are going to output less heals. As we all know healing meters don't record the amount of damage prevention, trying to compare a disc priest to that of a holy priest is retarded in that a great portion of disc healing (ie. shields) aren't even accounted for.

    2. Healing meters aren't completely useless, they are a good source of data. As people have pointed out you can use these tools to work out healing effeciency, ways to improve, reasons why peopled died etc. Note that this type of analysis is usually done on a specific healer and doesn't include the direct comparison of other healers.

    3. Directly comparing 1 healer to another in terms of raw healing doesnt actually show anything because there is 0 context. How many GCD's did the holy priest use on Dispel? How many GCD's did a shammy use on earthshock/purge? How much healing did druid hots do during the 5 second raid wide stun when we usually have tank deaths? Raw numbers never tell the entire story and i'll state again you're extremely narrow minded to suggest they do.

  17. #37
    gravity00
    Guest

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Well, I didn't read all this posts but I checked the link your armory and your friend

    What you can see:

    • You have 150 bonus heal plus that him
    • He's specced for Improved Divine Spirit (a waste imo) and he doesn't have any point in Divine Providence so less 10% heal in CoH
    • He have more crit that you, about 3% (a BIG diference imo)
    • He have more apirit that you, about 35, not a big diference with kings

    Conclusions:

    Well, he may crit more that you, still your CoH are much powerfull since you have more sp and Divine Providence. So, or he's more experienced/skilled than you or he has a better connection landing heals faster than you.
    Get more crit, like you said there are better gear than t7.5, you only need 2 bonus pieces for a raid healer. I still don't get it why ppl go for Healing Prayers, even as a raid healer (unless you want to use your PoM in every cd... yes, it is a amazing heal, yes, you can finish bosses with a lot of heal and no, i don't get it why ppl still don't use it on Patchwerk and prefer to have 98% overheal since palas pwn you)

    Now, if recount is that important for you and you want to be top healer and your mana is infinite (it should be) you can spamm CoH on every cd or... you use it smart, first on the melees and flash heal casters while you wait for the cd to finish. It's statistics, melees normally are closer to each others than casters, so you should get 6 heals... casters are serioous business :P

    Still... this is what I can tell you, CoH is not that important any more since you can't spamm it. You have a lot of bosses that CoH is just shit and Flash Heal/PoM become kings, specially with HC procs from flashes (a 1.6s Greater Heal? Well yeh baby).

    Well, this is just my opinion, flame

  18. #38

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    I thought in reading all the posts that he worked out he was using Rank 1 or some lower rank of CoH than max rank. Something someone in my guild for quite awhile, including our first 3 drake sarth kills...

    This is why I said early in this post you should be checking WWS for the number of targets healed instead of how much your total CoH's healed for. Once you worked out you were hitting the same amount of targets (within reason) the only possible cause was each of your CoH heals were doing substantially less and that could only be caused by using the incorrect rank (even with inferior gear you would be closer than what you were).

  19. #39

    Re: How to maximize Circle of healing effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swedishcow123
    Skill has nothing to do with it, people need healing to I pick the optimal spec to heal them with.

    And I've never been beaten by a disc-priest, not even on tank&spanks where their healing power is said to shine.

    "But you need to add 25% for the absorbed healing!"

    Done that, still not even close.

    And having 3% mitigation and 6% more healing done to 1-3 persons in a raid does not offset that.
    Then you don't play with good disc priests? 25% is also an arbitrary garbage number. My PW:S+DA goes up to about 50% of my "healing" sometimes, not to mention the damage saved with Pain Suppression, and yes the 3% extra mitigation adds up. Once PoH can be cast on other parties disc will be where it needs to.

    I'm not here to argue which is better but Holy is in no way as "optimal" as you think it is. They are both "optimal" in different situations and they compliment each other nicely.

    Meters are garbage and I say that being at the top. There are way too many variables. It's not an opinion.


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