Resto druids vs priests

[Jahnaca]

I play a druid and priest, both healers. I play with other druids and priests as healing partners. It has been my experience that where I fall on the meters depend on a given fight and group make up. Some fights are less healing intensive so I might be dpsing instead. I might be dispelling. I might notice that other then tank hots my heals aren’t needed. I might notice that there is huge AOE damage and the priests are doing a fine job getting their groups up so I am left filling in the gaps. I might be focused on one person, often the tank, or I might see group heals needs help. I might be playing with a healer (of any class) who loves to spam needed or not. I might over or under gear the other healers. I might favor one spell more then another healer does. All of this is very situational and makes an impact on where I might fall on the meters.

Here are some things to consider when you compare yourself to another class. Druids heal with hots, it is an over time heal that often does get snipped due to single target heals. WG is as powerful as COH. The difference is again snipping. A COH priest can cast COH on someone and have it land on someone your WG landed on. Depending on how much damage we are talking about their burst heal can cut off your hot. The same is true with chain heals etc. A lucky streak of POMs from a priest can snip a lot of heals off of a druid too. These are mechanics we can not control. Doesn’t make you worse or better btw.

Being number one with millions of heals cast only to be also at 75% over heals does not a good healer make. (True story). Being number two consistently but able to get a raid out of tight spot with skill is far better, hell even if you end up number 3 or 4. The true test of being good is being able to think on your feet and get the job done under pressure.

For the record, I find druids and priests bounce around a bit on the meters but generally fall as number one or number two, including myself on both toons. I try to compare myself with the same class I am playing in regards to output assuming we are doing similar jobs. I also tend to compare myself with, myself. I check how much I over heal and try out new rotations of spells (such as a rotation is on a healer.) I can, if I honestly want to, pad the meters with WG or COH every cool down and make number one, (done it to prove a point) but it means squat. If I do compare myself with another player it’s against someone (any class) who has proven to be an excellent player not just top of the meters. More often then not excellent players aren’t after topping charts with meaningless heals, if they get there, they got there naturally without actually trying. They are also the ones who can pull a rabbit out of their hats every time.

[Cledd]

Flexibility. A druid can fill any role. If your healer is sick, the druid can respec heals. If your a tank down, you can bring the druid. I know many druids with healing, dps and tanking sets.

Saying all classes are hybrids is wrong. The only true hybrids are druids and paladins. If your going to be able to do all 3 tasks, you should do them a little less better than the others. Otherwise we should all be able to do everything.

The other problem with this is that each class was designed to have a different play style. There are pure DPS classes, but not pure healing or pure tanking classes. The only distinction Blizzard has ever made between the ability of different classes to fill a certain role is in DPS.

[thatsprettyneat]

I play a druid and priest, both healers. I play with other druids and priests as healing partners. It has been my experience that where I fall on the meters depend on a given fight and group make up. Some fights are less healing intensive so I might be dpsing instead. I might be dispelling. I might notice that other then tank hots my heals aren’t needed. I might notice that there is huge AOE damage and the priests are doing a fine job getting their groups up so I am left filling in the gaps. I might be focused on one person, often the tank, or I might see group heals needs help. I might be playing with a healer (of any class) who loves to spam needed or not. I might over or under gear the other healers. I might favor one spell more then another healer does. All of this is very situational and makes an impact on where I might fall on the meters.

Here are some things to consider when you compare yourself to another class. Druids heal with hots, it is an over time heal that often does get snipped due to single target heals. WG is as powerful as COH. The difference is again snipping. A COH priest can cast COH on someone and have it land on someone your WG landed on. Depending on how much damage we are talking about their burst heal can cut off your hot. The same is true with chain heals etc. A lucky streak of POMs from a priest can snip a lot of heals off of a druid too. These are mechanics we can not control. Doesn’t make you worse or better btw.

Being number one with millions of heals cast only to be also at 75% over heals does not a good healer make. (True story). Being number two consistently but able to get a raid out of tight spot with skill is far better, hell even if you end up number 3 or 4. The true test of being good is being able to think on your feet and get the job done under pressure.

For the record, I find druids and priests bounce around a bit on the meters but generally fall as number one or number two, including myself on both toons. I try to compare myself with the same class I am playing in regards to output assuming we are doing similar jobs. I also tend to compare myself with, myself. I check how much I over heal and try out new rotations of spells (such as a rotation is on a healer.) I can, if I honestly want to, pad the meters with WG or COH every cool down and make number one, (done it to prove a point) but it means squat. If I do compare myself with another player it’s against someone (any class) who has proven to be an excellent player not just top of the meters. More often then not excellent players aren’t after topping charts with meaningless heals, if they get there, they got there naturally without actually trying. They are also the ones who can pull a rabbit out of their hats every time.

I have always wondered if healing meter does mean anything sometimes, since the mechanisms of healing meter and dps meter are different. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Jahnaca]

No healing meters are a very poor way to gauge skill. It tracks output without rhyme or reason.

Example, healer A does one million points of healing on Tank A, ends up number one. Healer B does 750,000 points on the raid. The tank during the course of that fight took less damage then the raid and was over healed by 75%. Healer B managed to save the warlock and death knight from the verge of death while dispelling the raid by themselves. He did it by stopping in their tracks a mob out to smack our warlock with a quick toss of his handy dandy tailoring net, the dk picked up the mob and got wacked hard, he isn’t the tank. Between all of this the raid takes damage with rain of fire. With no help from healer A, healer B saves the raid and healer A’s behind, he stood to long in a void.

Which would you like to heal with, A or B?

The meters have to be looked at in context. Who was healing whom. What actually transpired during that fight. Are the numbers (in regards to output) justified with actual content. What actual spells were being used, and were they used in correct context. Did the raid win.

[Hunterwep]

Well I as priest was doing allround 4000hps in raid, while our paladin had 7200hps ><
JoL+Holy light(with glyph) used only

But on topic, priest top ppl off faster then hots do wich doesnt mean the druid healer is doing a bad job... And as for overhealing, overhealing isnt a bad thing aslong you dont run oom. For example when some1 has taken 2000dmg as only one, I am not going to wait till he took 5200dmg so I can fit in a flash heal nicely without overheal

PS I still blame blizz removal to use lower rank spells for lower mana costs for my overhealing

[openair]

Example, healer A does one million points of healing on Tank A, ends up number one. Healer B does 750,000 points on the raid. The tank during the course of that fight took less damage then the raid and was over healed by 75%. Healer B managed to save the warlock and death knight from the verge of death while dispelling the raid by themselves. He did it by stopping in their tracks a mob out to smack our warlock with a quick toss of his handy dandy tailoring net, the dk picked up the mob and got wacked hard, he isn’t the tank. Between all of this the raid takes damage with rain of fire. With no help from healer A, healer B saves the raid and healer A’s behind, he stood to long in a void.

While I agree healing meters aren't THE sole way to judge healers, the above example is very strange. Most meters report Effective Healing, not total healing. So the 'one million' but 'over healed by 75%' is curious. The overhealing reported by most meters is overheal on top of effective healing.

Also the argument of they top meters but I make the 'saving' heals is also strange. If another healer was not doing the bulk healing, and topping the meters, you would most likely be too busy doing that healing yourself and unable to make the 'saving' heals.

[Jahnaca]

The point of that example was not to judge what a meter reads but rather what a meter doesn’t tell you and that numbers can be and often are meaningless.

If healer A was focused on just tossing out heals on our tank whether he needed the or not, this is not good.

If healer A failed to recognize healer B needed help (perhaps) and failed to provide said help, this is not good.

If healer A was so focused on spamming heals and failed to notice the void he was standing in, it’s not good either.

As for the possibility of healer B being able to provide a saving heal, your wrong. It is possible. What my example showed is that healer B was able to not only push out heals but was aware enough to go beyond his job and save another player. He was aware enough because he was paying attention that the DK was going to get aggro and was proactive in preventing his death, might have been luck, but well worth the shot. Using a net instead of a heal reduced his output for heals but was a creative solution to a problem.

This is what numbers can’t begin to show you. Once you get past a number on a screen and look at the whole picture, the number on the screen takes a back seat to just about anything. I would rather play with a person who looks past “their” dps and heals on a meter and actually work towards making the group a success. Even if it risks their elite position on a bar graph.

[openair]

yar, but the numbers given do not support any of that... For the 'tank to take less dmg then the raid' but the healer who was only healing the tank to put out more effective healing is impossble. Either healer A only did ~250k effective healing, or he was healing the raid too. If he only did 250k effictive (1 Million total -75% overheal) then the meter would clearly show Healer B far ahead and the superior healer.

And yea saving heals (or nets LOL, Raid bosses are immune to nets) in that situation wouldn't be a problem for healer B. But if Healer A actually did 1 million Effective healing, with another 750k overheal, that is entirely different. If healer A wasn't providing that healing, healer B would have to, and while it might be possible to still make those saving heals its also very possible Healer Bs mana would now be too stretched or too busy healing others instead.

[StaRuk]

All I'm going to say on the hybrid topic is that of course rogues, hunters etc should beat a feral druid. Priest should beat restro druid etc, but that dosn't mean it going to happened if they both had the same kinda of gear.

Skill is required still. Being top of the healing meter dosn't mean your the best. Keeping the raid up and doing your job, healing, decursing etc, means your a good healer. If you was like way of the healing fair enough, you either need to read your class specs/abilites or l2p.

[nevermore]

There's a lot of "your druids are bad" and "your priests suck" etc. going on in this thread, but the thing is, if geared and played properly Holy Priests will outheal Resto Druids in the current content.

Druids mainly operate with HoTs (to a less extent in the next patch, but still) and as the name suggests, they heal over time.
HoTs start to shine when the damage becomes so high that it can't be insta-healed like now.

The only fights where Druids should be on top of the meters are fights where there are multiple tanks to heal (Lifebloom abuse) and little to no raid damage going on. Yes, it's Noth.

Priests have way too many smart and convenient tools to use, and I'm starting to understand this even more since my Priest dinged 80. Prayer of Mending, CoH, instant and mana-free Flash Heals... and so on. Druid HoTs will start to kick in and shine after all these spells have done their jobs and there is still some damage to be healed.

Currently, as one of my Priest guildmates said, if a Priest uses his cooldowns all the time there's no way he can be outhealed. That goes for the current raid content. The situation will be better in Ulduar, as the true potential of Resto Druids will start to shine.

If you need an example, check out the Thaddius fight. MT healing can be done by a Paladin casually slapping Flash of Light as the boss hits like a wuss and the only raid damage is an instant, area based damage that gets healed up instantly by a Circle of Healing and I can watch my Wild Growth tick once if I'm lucky (even though it's instant the first tick has a 1sec delay).

I'm not saying Resto Druids are bad, they are great. I'm saying the current level of damage makes Resto Druids redundant from a "bleeding edge" point of view. A Holy Priest should never, ever be below others on healing done (except for the Lifebloom gimmick fights), currently.

Things will change a bit in Ulduar, I can't wait for it to go Live ;>

[Ravenblade]

the person at the top of the healing meter is the best healer in your guild

No.

When do people understand that healing isn't a racing game?

It's perfectly possible that a Priest gets on top without any healer in the raid being "bad". It's called assignment or focussed healing which often gets amplified by encounter parameters.

[Dragoon112]

to heal good with druid u must think and heal 20 seconds ahead rather than in real time than whats happening right now and chose correct heals depending on how much dmg raid is taking.

[Swepa]

Ive just downloaded dpsmeter/healing meter to see how good it goes for us healer.

I didnt reset during any fight so i had overall healing done.

Then i checked after kelthuzad...

Nr1: Priest (holy) - 1.200 000
Nr2: Me (resto druid)- 958.000
Nr3: Paladin (Holy) - 850.000
Nr4: Druid (resto) - 750.000
Nr5: Priest (holy - 500.000
Nr6: Paladin (retridin wtf?):200.000
Nr7: Priest (Holy): 160.000

Please tell me how this can happend? xD Not liek nr7 is undergeared =/
Im afraid of ulduar imo.