Diminishing Returns on Death Grip

[lizard]

Hamstring has no cooldon, no diminishing retruns, costs 10 rage AND is undispellable.

10 rage is nothing compared to 1 frost rune. Dare you to tell me otherwise, it'll prove you know nothing.

10 rage is about equivalent to one frost rune. hamstring is far inferior to chains. I have been PvPing since vanilla open beta. If I know nothing, 99% of WoWers don't.

[psicorp]

10 rage is about equivalent to one frost rune. hamstring is far inferior to chains. I have been PvPing since vanilla open beta. If I know nothing, 99% of WoWers don't.

if hamstring is inferior to CoI, why are all the DKs shifting to there new 50% undispellable snare? why do all DKs in higher brackets use glyphed blood boil, instead of CoI?

[lizard]

if hamstring is inferior to CoI, why are all the DKs shifting to there new 50% undispellable snare? why do all DKs in higher brackets use glyphed blood boil, instead of CoI?

because it's even more OP, d'uh..

[psicorp]

because it's even more OP, d'uh..

yup. that 50% undispellable snare...that 5 second long undispellable snare...is totally OP huh? i mean, no other class has a 50% undispellable snare that lasts 5 only 5 whole seconds!

[metsfan]

ITT: DKs who will stop at nothing to defend their OP class.

[Deleted]

10 rage is about equivalent to one frost rune. hamstring is far inferior to chains. I have been PvPing since vanilla open beta. If I know nothing, 99% of WoWers don't.

I want CoI cost changed to 10 runic power then, ty
1 frost rune is more like 20-30rage since your primary attacks cost araund that much rage

[lizard]

yup. that 50% undispellable snare...that 5 second long undispellable snare...is totally OP huh? i mean, no other class has a 50% undispellable snare that lasts 5 only 5 whole seconds!

...and frost fever does not have 30 yards range and does no damage at all.

Imagine, you have NO range damage to speak of and you have at most 2-3 globals on the target before you get kited again for at least 20 seconds. how fun is it wasting one of them on a oh so great 10 second snare that does nothing else than... snare?

[lizard]

I want CoI cost changed to 10 runic power then, ty
1 frost rune is more like 20-30rage since your primary attacks cost araund that much rage

you have 6 runes, AND runic power. warriors only have rage. your runes regenerate when you are kited. rage does not.

[psicorp]

...and frost fever does not have 30 yards range and does no damage at all.

Imagine, you have NO range damage to speak of and you have at most 2-3 globals on the target before you get kited again for at least 20 seconds. how fun is it wasting one of them on a oh so great 10 second snare that does nothing else than... snare?

nice subject change. what does icy touch (i assume that's what your referring to) have to do with blood boil, or CoI, unless you refer to precluding the use thereby?

glyphed blood boil, incidentally, is removed next patch, i use it to illustrate how much better 50% undispellable is then variable speed dispellable. next patch every pvp DK i know is using either glyphed heartstrike, chilblains, or desecration, depending on spec.

[lizard]

nice subject change. what does icy touch (i assume that's what your referring to) have to do with blood boil, or CoI, unless you refer to precluding the use thereby?

my point was that the 5 second snare is just a bonus on a spell that has 30 yards AND does damage, while warriors have to sacrifice a global and rage on it AND be in melee range (which is hard enought when you do not have a holy paladin in your team).

glyphed blood boil, incidentally, is removed next patch, i use it to illustrate how much better 50% undispellable is then variable speed dispellable. next patch every pvp DK i know is using either glyphed heartstrike, chilblains, or desecration, depending on spec.

how much better is a 10 sec undispellable !melee range! snare over a 20y range, dispellable 2sec ROOT without diminishing returns, followed by a snare?

just fyi: hamstring is still dispellable by shapeshifting, hand of freedom, ice block, vanish, divine shield and, I believe, hand of protection. the only effective difference is that priests cannot dispel hamstring (though they can rage starve a warrior until it runs out sometimes).

[psicorp]

icy touch does not cause glyphed blood boil. blood boil causes glyphed bloodboil. why are we talking about icy touch?

also, root on CoI is 1 second. also, all the abilities you mention, with the exception of shapeshift, have cooldowns. cleans and dispel do not. which means slow a DK, cleanse his target, and he gets to wait 25/35 seconds to dgrip it. repeat

[lizard]

I thought you were referring to chillbane. but my point still stands: you get the snare as a bonus on an already powerful spell.

also, 10% movement speed and imho even 20% can be considered a root for all practical purposes. furthermore, if my target freezes, then runs away, then freezes again, I at least have *some* opportunity to apply melee swings. when we both are slowed to a constant 50%, he only needs to have a lucky lagspike to get out of my melee range and with some luck, not get into it again for a LONG time.
as for kiting, well, you can at least keep your diseases on or throw death coils or have your ghoul nag at the target. a warrior does literally 0 damage when kited.

edit: oh, and as for the abilities removing hamstring and their cooldowns: whenever one of them IS used, it is highly unlikely that the warrior can apply hamstring again very soon, disregarding the noobs and facerollers. shapeshift is an exception here also, but this point also still stands.

[psicorp]

blood boil does 400 damage (ish)

it is just used for the snare. and yes, the ability to stop an opponent in his tracks for a second, has its use. don't think anyone denies that. but literally every DK i know, is far happier to just get him slowed for the duration. spamming frost runes as quick as you can get em out is not the way to be able to do any dps. even if you get to the target your pretty much limited to blood striking because you dont have any frost runes to do any damage. so we blood boil. blood runes arent as valuable and we know that one blood boil is going to slow down so i can catch him and when i get there i can actually use scourge strike or obliterate.

also, now i am having trouble figuring out whats being complained about. first t was dgrip, now its chains of ice which most DKs are going to actually take off there toolbars next patch. is that really what seems like the best thing to complain about? an ability which will shortly be little more then a gimick for double rogue or rogue mage teams?

[lizard]

...and now imagine that this ability, which you are taking off your bar is STILL MORE POWERFUL THAN HAMSTRING. believe me. it is. i would gladly trade hamstring for it and not regret it for a second. even if it costed 20 rage, which is way more than one rune, it would still be worth it for a warrior. in contrast to the retards above, I'm not complaining about deathgrip, CoI or anything else (although I share the opinion that there are too many powerful pvp abilities on the DK), I'm complaining about you DKs who are too blind to see how OP the abilities actually are compared to what other classes have to get around with.

P.S.: just a small gimmick story for proving my point. we were doing 5v5 the other day (fury, dk, ret + 2 healers, 1850ish rating). on the other team, there was a mage with just above 20k hp. so our DK gripped him to us. the next MOMENT (I'm not talking GCDs or seconds, but moments), the mage was dead and the game was won. 100% to 0% in under 0.3 seconds. now how is any other class supposed to produce such a fast and easy win for its team, even if the team does everything right?

P.P.S.: oh, and did you know that most warrior 2v2 setups get completely smashed by rogue + x teams?

[metsfan]

I love how every DK here is pretending like the PvP glove bonus doesn't give them a 35% chance to refresh their frost rune when they cast chains of ice.

I have seen DKs that get a lucky string of these cast chains of ice 5-7 times in a row.

Put this bullshit on DR, and ditch that glove bonus. Make it reduce the runic power cost of death coil by 5 or something stupid like that (similar to rogue and warrior bonus)

[lizard]

Put this bullshit on DR, and ditch that glove bonus. Make it reduce the runic power cost of death coil by 5 or something stupid like that (similar to rogue and warrior bonus)

I lol'd ;D

[metsfan]

i would gladly trade hamstring for it and not regret it for a second. even if it costed 20 rage, which is way more than one rune, it would still be worth it for a warrior.

Don't forget also, that you will have a 35% chance whenever you use this ability to immediately get the rage you spent back.

[Vallos]

You should not trade Hamstring for it. I think you're just being bitter. To be fair, though, most everyone in this thread is being bitter.

Chains of Ice is pretty damn bad. It reduces damage potential by around 25% for 10 seconds if it's used. It's dispelable. Seriously, there are things that are way too powerful with the Death Knight class. This isn't one of them.

Also, if you're having trouble kiting a deathknight-- you need to learn to play. Number one weakness of the class.

[metsfan]

You should not trade Hamstring for it. I think you're just being bitter. To be fair, though, most everyone in this thread is being bitter.

Chains of Ice is pretty damn bad. It reduces damage potential by around 25% for 10 seconds if it's used. It's dispelable. Seriously, there are things that are way too powerful with the Death Knight class. This isn't one of them.

Also, if you're having trouble kiting a deathknight-- you need to learn to play. Number one weakness of the class.

Dumbass

it does not remove your damage potential

Because more than 1 out of 3 times YOU WILL GET THE RUNE BACK IMMEDIATELY.

[Marvdatboi]

You should not trade Hamstring for it. I think you're just being bitter. To be fair, though, most everyone in this thread is being bitter.

Chains of Ice is pretty damn bad. It reduces damage potential by around 25% for 10 seconds if it's used. It's dispelable. Seriously, there are things that are way too powerful with the Death Knight class. This isn't one of them.

Also, if you're having trouble kiting a deathknight-- you need to learn to play. Number one weakness of the class.

Lol even if using chains of ice reduces your damage poetential you still cna kill some poor SoB with Auto Attack alone.