Savage Defense :: How Would You Design It?

[fibre]

[Trained Ability] Savage Defense: X% chance to absorb melee damage by summoning a wall of brambles. Scales/modified by defense/block/agility.

[TALENT] Masterful Defense: Increases chance to summon a wall of brambles by 30% for 30 sec for each attack blocked while active. Each block expends a charge. 4 charges.

My number's might need to be balanced properly, but the spirit of the idea is the point. I don't think Savage Defense is a terrible idea, just not fully developed properly for the Druid class, and from what I hear isn't making up for the HotW + SotF nerfs. I don't like that an offensive ability proc's a defensive ability. Although I could get behind that concept if they worded it properly. Savage Defense: You hit the mofo so bloody hard he loses confidence reducing next attack by 25% of your AP. I also don't like that it scales with Attack Power instead of agility or dodge. Is that supposed to be incentive to trade Stamina, Dodge, Agility for more AP gems/enchants?

Maybe they figure AP is a stat we already have, and naturally scales upward with better gear, so they'd use that, but it's not a stat I buff with enchants or gems, so it seems perceptually somewhat limited by that. If their goal is to give us avoidance/dmg mitigation they should just give us an ability or even a tanking relic that blocks, and scales with block/defense rating.

[Alski]

Scales/modified by defense/block/agility.

/facepalm

[Koumaru]

Just a quick reply to the question in the subject line:

I think Savage Defense should be a core ability, trained at level 40 (with Dire Bear Form as a prerequisite), which causes your critical hits to grant you a shield reducing the damage of the next physical attack that strikes you by an amount equal to 25% of your attack power.

[MintMagic]

[TALENT] Rabid Intercept:Intercepts attack and counter attacks receiving no damage to self, but doing X amount of damage to all targets attacking you. This talent lasts 8 seconds. 45 second cool down.

You poke a rabid dog in a cage with a stick, it bites the stick back.

So I made this talent to address several issues. First and foremost, mitigation. I don't know if 16s/per 45s is enough to address the overall issue that is currently being discussed, but I think this is an option. Similar to parry, but not parry, so no need to stack a new stat. Threat. This talent allows druids to be able to build threat w/o using GC. AoE. This talent also allows a druid to get solid AoE threat in while steam rolling in Heroics and trash pulls in raids.

Personally I dont like that an offensive proc (crit) procs a defensive one. It feels like it takes some control out of the situation and /throws dice. For example you know enrage is coming or some massive incoming hit, yet your SD just proced and is on CD. I find the most frustrating wipes are the ones that are no ones faults. Also, Im weary of bosses that go Immune to dmg, leaving you w/o SD for that amount of time.

[fibre]

I dont like that an offensive proc (crit) procs a defensive one. It feels like it takes some control out of the situation and /throws dice.

Me neither, and I really dig the Intercept idea!! You should start a separate thread dedicated to it, and also post it to the WoW suggestion forum. It goes well with the idea that Druid tanks shouldn't be homogenized to work like the other tanking classes, while still providing defensive mitigation

The whole concept of Savage Defense currently just doesn't seem right. I crit so now I take less damage next time the mob hits me? Heck, maybe it just needs a bit of re-wording. Instead of gaining some defensive ability after critting, you hit the s.o.b. so damn hard that it's confidence is shattered reducing it's next attack by 25% of your AP. I could get behind that idea.

Savage Damage
Each time you deal a critical strike while in Bear Form or Dire Bear Form, your opponent temporarily loses confidence reducing the damage taken from the target's next physical attack by 25% of your attack power.

[ReD-EyeD]

Well... Just let savage shield stay for several attacks and its fine.

[Myzou]

Just a quick reply to the question in the subject line:

I think Savage Defense should be a core ability, trained at level 40 (with Dire Bear Form as a prerequisite), which causes your critical hits to grant you a shield reducing the damage of the next physical attack that strikes you by an amount equal to 25% of your attack power.

Cause you know Boomkins wouldn't abuse that, nope.

[ReD-EyeD]

Oh, I have another one...
[Whatever of Whatever]
Talent in the middle of feral tree (21 or something)
Each time you recieve physical damage your dodge increasing by 2% up to 10% (5 stacks). Buff expires after dodge.

I think we can add it to Natural Reaction. Atleast it will be usefull for cats too.

[Deleted]

I would remove it and give us our 10% health, 33% armor and threat back as is on live, since there is nothing wrong with Feral tanking atm.

[ReD-EyeD]

I would remove it and give us our 10% health, 33% armor and threat back as is on live, since there is nothing wrong with Feral tanking atm.

I guess you are new to feral tanking? Am I right?
Yeah, we are OK now, but in the future we will reach armor cap very easy and new loot will not upgrade us. But now we have more stats to consider - thats always good.

[Elunedra]

When Criticaly hit or are beeying criticaly hit increases agility by 25% for 5 secs :P

(defece curl ftw)

[1sickpuppy]

I like to see Savage Defense be our version of actual Blocking as if we really did have a Shield equipped in Dire Bear form, the same way Blocking would be for a Paladin or Warrior. While we won't actually be able to equip a real Shield, nor should we, our stats can fill in the gaps the same way as this next example. Death Knights have Forceful Deflection that converts 1/4 (25%) of their Strength into extra Parry Rating, in similar Savage Defense should convert a portion of our Agility, say 1/3 (33%) into Block Rating and 1/2 (50%) Stamina into Shield Block Value.

On my Druid that is about 313 Block Rating and 1416 Shield Block Value, unbuffed.

Edit: it should also benefit from +Defense Skill and +Block Rating items as well. Not something we would normally use, but I myself +23 Defense points from a few pieces of gear such as Neck, Cloak, and Rings so might as well include them.

[ReD-EyeD]

Edit: it should also benefit from +Defense Skill and +Block Rating items as well. Not something we would normally use, but I myself +23 Defense points from a few pieces of gear such as Neck, Cloak, and Rings so might as well include them.

Sorry, but this is stupid. We itemized around 'rogue' leather. Defence? Block rating? No, please not.

[Boringz]

I guess you are new to feral tanking? Am I right?
Yeah, we are OK now, but in the future we will reach armor cap very easy and new loot will not upgrade us. But now we have more stats to consider - thats always good.

well in tier 8 content we get more agi on our base gear but we lose stam like hell, in full tier 8 we will most likely have same hp as a warrior or even below unless fully stam gemmed.... tier 7.5 shoulders (if u take socket bonus) is 91 stamina, tier 8.5 (has no stam socket bonus) is 77 stamina.. and that fact actually slammed me in the head on top of a 10% hotw nerf..
and tbh i don't see any heavy armor improvements either so I don't see us getting the armor cap that easily..

[fibre]

Edit: it should also benefit from +Defense Skill and +Block Rating items as well. Not something we would normally use, but I myself +23 Defense points from a few pieces of gear such as Neck, Cloak, and Rings so might as well include them.

Sorry, but this is stupid. We itemized around 'rogue' leather. Defence? Block rating? No, please not.

Actually it's not stupid, and could easily be balanced by giving us tanking relics that have +block +defense, and giving Savage Defense a +block + defense multiplier like bear form does for HP/Armor. I think it's a fine idea, and I like the idea of Savage Defense proc'ing defensively like parry/block does instead of offensively on crits. Unless they go all out and turn us into more of a completely offensive tank, in other ways.

[mgp84]

I would add a threat factor into it, so when you get hit, you reflect the damage back to the attacker.

[Avermra]

Speaking of Savage Defense, have they actually implemented that on the PTR yet, or is it still NYI?

It's on PTR and working. It can get spammy if you use SCT related features on Absorb so turning it off wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Barbie]

Thought about this a long time:

First of all expertise should increase our chance to be missed to change bears being mana sponges without a healthpool to sponge (end of Ulduar frostknights will have ~9-10% higher miss/dodge/parry as we will get).

Next there is no need for King of cooldown DKs to have higher armor as bears have. (I'm fine with armor nerf but if DKs or any other class ends up having higher armor it's overdrawn... maybe 15/30/45% is enough or just tune other classes down - bears need to be on top of sth. so in best case we have competitive health & armor.)

Furthermore change iLotP to grant stacking 2% attack and spell power for 6 sec. (without limitations) and change Savage Defense to heal us for xy% of attack power on crits. (As is iLotP adds to little to be wanted in groups/raids and as is SD puts bears behind in tanking multiple mobs/trashpacks...)

Last but not least change Berserk to reset all cooldowns and we have a chance to be viable.

/discuss


P.S.: If you want Blizzard to think about this someone posting it to US tanking forum will be greately appreciated as I just have an 2nd class european account. :-\

[Barbie]

No concerns anyone? .oO( Ghostcrawler, your job could be that easy... ;D)

[getefix]

Cause you know Boomkins wouldn't abuse that, nope.

great, there's a boomkin in bearform with 0 AP. what are you gonna do about that?