The Ice Crown citadel

[Noteven]

I personally don't care what drops in this raid, BUT I do care about the different modes that might become available to players. I've been playing this game since it came out and I never would have thought of "10mans" for normal 25man raids. Now I can understand the Karas and the Za's but personally I think that the lack of difficulty that follow the 10mans in the WOTLK has ruined the best raid ever created in the history of this game (Naxx) I remember when I was level 60 and the rush to be the first to just step into Naxx and hearing the rumors of it being the most challenging instance to defeat, to me that was some of the lore that was behind Naxx. Then came Wrath, the return of Naxx, but little did I know that the hardest, most challenging Raid CAN BE PUGGABLE!!!! WHY BLIZZ WHY. Getting back to my main point. I would be very happy if the blizz team when discussing the ICC that it is made only for the top of top, and have some sort of attunement for it, and most importantly not have a 10man for it... I would hate to see the end of this great xpack close to a puggable end game raid.

[dannzi]

i made an account just to say, you sir, are an idiot, i also did vanilla naxxramas, and i also think how it turned out to be in wotlk is lame, but ICC not being a 10 man raid goes against all blizzard has done in this expanssion, they want EVERYONE to see the game, not the 1% elitist that can beat it, for their need of wiping, you have hard mode, now you can choose to see the content in easy-mode and get semi-good-rewards, or you can do it in HARD MODE, and get back to your wiping on bosses and better loot, achievements, titles, it's the way the game is being designed, live with it or gtfo

[TheColtrain]

In my mind this game has become casual-craft.

I have played since pre-BC, and it really was a different game then. There were tiers of dungons, and you know what... not everyone got to do all of them! But hey, that was ok with me. I remember walking around IF, and seeing a Warrior who had TF, the bug mount, AND full Dread! He was like to coolest player on the server!!!! Not a single other player had all that stuff. You would see the power guilds forming up on raid nights, IF flooded with top skill players all in their matching armor, it was truly something to behold.

TBC was a step towards casual with the intoduction of a new PvP system, and dungons which were much easier to gain entrance to. By the mid point in BC I was doing very well in PvP and had no real reason to PvE becasue I was getting amazing gear and spending the rest of my time farming. I got into a raid here and there but really did not feel that sense of adventure as everyhting was on farm by everyone already. Before Wrath hit I remember doing Sunwell (the only raid I had not done), and after the 30% nerf it had lost some of its edge.

Wrath hit and I qickly leveled to 80, skipping most of the lore. Instances are a joke. CC is no more. Tank target, DPS target tank target, healer heal tank and DPS that pull argo. Oh wait... thats for heroic... reg's are more like. 111112111111221122231. I yawn I cry I laugh and walla the instance is done. Naxx I felt was violated. It was an amazing instance that only top level players got to see and expereince, and now everyone and their mother has full 7.25 to run around with.

So for Crown, this is what I would like to see.

An instance so challenging (not to be mixed up with hard) that only players with true skill and understanding of their class can compete. An instance that everyone might not have the opportunity to see becasue it takes time to get in. I am going to be rather upset when I see everyone running around with Artha's personal armor set, but I know it will come.

So why do I stil play? Well its still a good way to burn a few hours when there is nothign else to do.

The game needs more cowbell edge

[Herecius]

We are multiple patches away from even taking potshots at the Lich King, and the QQ of 'it will be too easy' has already begun. The bell tolls for thee, forum moderators!

[harrygoboom]

Then came Wrath, the return of Naxx, but little did I know that the hardest, most challenging Raid CAN BE PUGGABLE!!!! WHY BLIZZ WHY.

b.c they're a corporation that aims for money, and it obviously costs less to bring a well-built instance from the past that 95% of the population didn't see, allowing it for casuals, and some don't even mind. i got to naxx pre-bc, too, it was great. now it's for beginners to see. that's why.

[Xthform]

In my mind this game has become casual-craft.

I have played since pre-BC, and it really was a different game then. There were tiers of dungons, and you know what... not everyone got to do all of them! But hey, that was ok with me. I remember walking around IF, and seeing a Warrior who had TF, the bug mount, AND full Dread! He was like to coolest player on the server!!!! Not a single other player had all that stuff. You would see the power guilds forming up on raid nights, IF flooded with top skill players all in their matching armor, it was truly something to behold.

TBC was a step towards casual with the intoduction of a new PvP system, and dungons which were much easier to gain entrance to. By the mid point in BC I was doing very well in PvP and had no real reason to PvE becasue I was getting amazing gear and spending the rest of my time farming. I got into a raid here and there but really did not feel that sense of adventure as everyhting was on farm by everyone already. Before Wrath hit I remember doing Sunwell (the only raid I had not done), and after the 30% nerf it had lost some of its edge.

Wrath hit and I qickly leveled to 80, skipping most of the lore. Instances are a joke. CC is no more. Tank target, DPS target tank target, healer heal tank and DPS that pull argo. Oh wait... thats for heroic... reg's are more like. 111112111111221122231. I yawn I cry I laugh and walla the instance is done. Naxx I felt was violated. It was an amazing instance that only top level players got to see and expereince, and now everyone and their mother has full 7.25 to run around with.

So for Crown, this is what I would like to see.

An instance so challenging (not to be mixed up with hard) that only players with true skill and understanding of their class can compete. An instance that everyone might not have the opportunity to see becasue it takes time to get in. I am going to be rather upset when I see everyone running around with Artha's personal armor set, but I know it will come.

So why do I stil play? Well its still a good way to burn a few hours when there is nothign else to do.

The game needs more cowbell edge

COWBELL I love you.

[SFJake]

In my mind this game has become casual-craft.

I still fail to see whats bad about this.

Sure, it lacks epicness at a certain level, but most arguments seems to be more about epeen that anything else.

I really don't understand whats wrong with easy 10-mans. Naxx is puggable... so? I'm having fun in it. I wouldn't be raiding if this was still elitist-craft.

I am not against more challenge and I hope the difficulty climbs not so casuals can't experience it, but that you must go through a certain level of efforts to complete it. NOT that it requires the most insane, no life kids that want nothing but show their 1337 1007 only 1% of the population can get, WHICH are obtained by experiencing one of the most epic part of the game...


I just don't understand how can anyone see this as wrong... but what the hell..

[akav]

i made an account just to say, you sir, are an idiot, i also did vanilla naxxramas, and i also think how it turned out to be in wotlk is lame, but ICC not being a 10 man raid goes against all blizzard has done in this expanssion, they want EVERYONE to see the game, not the 1% elitist that can beat it, for their need of wiping, you have hard mode, now you can choose to see the content in easy-mode and get semi-good-rewards, or you can do it in HARD MODE, and get back to your wiping on bosses and better loot, achievements, titles, it's the way the game is being designed, live with it or gtfo

That makes the main point of rading to farm instances, not to down bosses, which is lame. You should raid to down bosses, the feeling I get from downing a super hard boss is better than winning a piece of loot that half my server already has. People who pull 2k dps in full Val. gear shouldnt exist. Also by serving the casuals and making it a gear focused game blizz has made it so that once people get full sets of gear they get bored, doing an easymode instance in BiS gear is not that fun.

[dannzi]

That makes the main point of rading to farm instances, not to down bosses, which is lame. You should raid to down bosses, the feeling I get from downing a super hard boss is better than winning a piece of loot that half my server already has. People who pull 2k dps in full Val. gear shouldnt exist. Also by serving the casuals and making it a gear focused game blizz has made it so that once people get full sets of gear they get bored, doing an easymode instance in BiS gear is not that fun.

and that's why you do it in HARD MODE, and get the feeling you like when downing something hard, considering ulduar has 10 out of 14 bosses with hard mode, i don't count algalon cuz he has no normal mode, you have plenty of shit to do, and considering each boss might have 1,2 maybe 3 different hard modes, it's even more to do.

if you want epicness, don't burn though ulduar in easy mode, then go back fully geared and pewpew hard modes "easily", go for hard modes @ the start and get your epicness, case closed, elitist can be happy with titles, challanges, better loot, and the people that aren't as good to down FL with 4 towers down or hodir within X min, or mimiron within 8min, can be happy with their "casual" loot and no titles.

The game is no longer about "epic" gear, it's about epic titles and achievement, and it's here to stay, so stop trying to bitch about ICC having to be 25 man only with bosses the 3% of the elite people can beat, while the other 10 million people never get to see it, is it really a good marketing, making a game that maybe... 500.000 out of +10.000.000 people get to see, considering that most of the money would come from the people that don't get to see it, i don't see how that's "good buisness", and blizzard is in the buisness of making money.