1. #1

    Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Hey all-

    I was looking over Redcape's latest DPS spreadsheet on EJ, and noticed that agility and haste have very similar stat weights when raiding with SoB. So, my question is, which stat is better to enchant your cloak with: +23 Haste or +22 Agility? I know that it's been agility hands down up until now, and wasn't sure if that was still going to be the case with 3.1. I'm holy atm, but want to make sure I don't waste any mats enchanting the wrong thing as I prepare for dual-spec. Thanks.
    WTF folder, indeed.

  2. #2
    Fornicis
    Guest

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    I am by no means a paladin, but I read on Mmo-champion that in 3.1 Haste will become more useful for melee classes, so I think its a matter of opinion, which would you prefer, more att power and crit or a quicker swing timer > more SoB procs and a lower GCD.

  3. #3

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    I'd stick with Agi, it affects crit therefor CS / DS / Jugdement / Swing / Seal damage, whereas haste only affects swing and seal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  4. #4

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fornicis
    I am by no means a paladin, but I read on Mmo-champion that in 3.1 Haste will become more useful for melee classes, so I think its a matter of opinion, which would you prefer, more att power and crit or a quicker swing timer > more SoB procs and a lower GCD.
    It's just more crit, not AP.
    22 agi = .42% crit
    23 haste = .92% haste in 3.1.

    Considering the fact the SoB change puts more emphasis on melee swings than there already is, I definitely wouldn't rule haste out as a viable enchant.

  5. #5

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Kings boosts agility a little further and agi also gives you some dodge, which never hurts. I play a feral druid though so I'm way biased. :P

  6. #6

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Haste would only affect Auto-Swing + Seals (since everything else is an instant) while Crit would increase the crit chance of everything by Lolsecration.

    I'd bet AG would be superior, esp since I've 'heard' that Crit rating is going to be hard to find on Ulduar gear, which makes sense considering how ridiculously high our Crit rating currently is; I <3 my current 37% unbuffed crit, but it took full SWP gear to get anywhere near that in TBC.

  7. #7
    Pit Lord iktankniet's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    ive seen plenty of gear with crit on it. and thats not even all the items available in ulduar.

  8. #8

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    You could just take his spreadsheet numbers, and... I dunno? Times Agi by 22 and Haste by 23? Novel concept I know, but you could try it

  9. #9

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Wait for finalization of changes, as the rawr/redspace guys say, it looks like we might see a couple more changes in the last few builds. (should be at least one major build left, maybe two)
    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok
    I'd stick with Agi, it affects crit therefor CS / DS / Jugdement / Swing / Seal damage, whereas haste only affects swing and seal.
    Do you know what a stat weight is? No? Then don't talk. Math does not care about your opinions.

  10. #10

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Actually I do know what stat weight is, here is a reminder for you. Do you know how to think for yourself and not always follow blindly ? I doubt that.

    And this one's on me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  11. #11

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xs
    You could just take his spreadsheet numbers, and... I dunno? Times Agi by 22 and Haste by 23? Novel concept I know, but you could try it
    Done:

    Agility = 36 (Stat Weight, out of 100) * 22 (Enchant) = 792
    Haste = 34 (Stat Weight, out of 100) * 23 (Enchant) = 782

    Looks like Agility is the winner.
    WTF folder, indeed.

  12. #12

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorban
    Done:

    Agility = 36 (Stat Weight, out of 100) * 22 (Enchant) = 792
    Haste = 34 (Stat Weight, out of 100) * 23 (Enchant) = 782

    Looks like Agility is the winner.
    Even more so if you didn't add in things like Kings. =D

  13. #13

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorban
    Done:

    Agility = 36 (Stat Weight, out of 100) * 22 (Enchant) = 792
    Haste = 34 (Stat Weight, out of 100) * 23 (Enchant) = 782

    Looks like Agility is the winner.
    Haste might be better in 3.1 when it gets 30% more value and SoB/M melee procs will hit like an 18 wheeler truck set on fire.

  14. #14

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorban
    Done:

    Agility = 36 (Stat Weight, out of 100) * 22 (Enchant) = 792
    Haste = 34 (Stat Weight, out of 100) * 23 (Enchant) = 782

    Looks like Agility is the winner.
    This would be right if you aren't considering things like the 4pc T8 bonus. Is there a real benefit to pushing your crit rating even higher?? Auto-attack and Seal aren't affected, judgement already has a crit talent, and CS/DS get 10% more crit. I would doubt that you would still show Agi being the clear winner while wearing 4pc T8. As everyone here has there own, this is just my opinion.

    Win7(64)Pro - Intel 3770K @ 4.5GHz - 4x4GB DDR3 G Skill Ripjaws X - XFX Radeon HD 7970 - Samsung EVO 500GB SSD

  15. #15

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Proper stat weighting is supposed to be valued at its full raid buff potential, you may want to look into whether or not it is or isn't when you discuss a given weight. I believe the recent rawr/redscape values from the EJ thread are, but again, make sure before you start blowing gold.

    And yes, the stat weights look at the tier bonuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok
    Actually I do know what stat weight is, here is a reminder for you. Do you know how to think for yourself and not always follow blindly ? I doubt that.

    And this one's on me.
    Again, math really doesn't give a flying feral druid through a rolling ignite about your opinion. There are what educated and careful simcrafters come up with, and then there's being wrong. Sometimes they're in the latter category due to math errors, but that isn't the fault of math. There is no such thing as "thinking for yourself", there is being educated, knowing your class, and reaching the correct conclusions.

  16. #16

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    The stat weights I used were pulled directly from Redcape's latest DPS spreadsheet (updated for 3.1, which takes things like Kings into account), then multiplied by a common factor to fit them within a scale of 100, with 100 being used for Hit rating. (I know, I was surprised to no longer see strength at the top, too, but I think it's because of the new Exorcism changes.) Anyway...

    Also, I'll be using my T7/T7.5 for a long while, as Holy is my main spec, so T8 set bonuses don't really concern me personally. I'm trying to find the best cloak enchant that will work best for my gear, and so far it looks like Agility is the winner.

    Edit: I just went through the spreadsheet in detail, and it assumes using 4-piece T8. So Agility is still superior when T8 4-piece is equipped, but I'm no longer sure about T7 4-piece. I'll brb, hehe. >_<
    WTF folder, indeed.

  17. #17

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorban
    Edit: I just went through the spreadsheet in detail, and it assumes using 4-piece T8. So Agility is still superior when T8 4-piece is equipped, but I'm no longer sure about T7 4-piece. I'll brb, hehe. >_<
    Good work, sir.

    Win7(64)Pro - Intel 3770K @ 4.5GHz - 4x4GB DDR3 G Skill Ripjaws X - XFX Radeon HD 7970 - Samsung EVO 500GB SSD

  18. #18

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Ok, hopefully this will set things straight. And in the end, I got my question answered, thanks!

    I re-adjusted Redcape's spreadsheet by removing the T8 set bonuses, and added the T7 ones (+10% DS damage, -1 sec on Judge CD). Naturally, the stat weights changed slightly, but Agility was still ahead of haste.

    So, in conclusion, whether you're rocking 4-piece T7 or 4-piece T8, the proper enchant to use is +22 Agility!!!

    Outside of 4-piece bonuses, I don't know, you'll have to find out for yourself.

    Edit: This is for Alliance only, as we get +1% Hit from Draenei racial. All you silly BE's will have to tweak the spreadsheet numbers some more to be sure, but it shouldn't change much. :P
    WTF folder, indeed.

  19. #19

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark
    make sure before you start blowing gold.
    I am unfamiliar with that saying, what does it mean ? (english is my 2nd language)
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  20. #20

    Re: Proper Ret Cloak Enchant for 3.1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok
    I am unfamiliar with that saying, what does it mean ? (english is my 2nd language)
    Blowing gold = wastefully spending gold.
    WTF folder, indeed.

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