Enchanting vs. Jewelcrafting vs. Alchemy

[Keoren]

I don't usually ask for feedback here or anywhere, rather liking to think things through myself. Even after reading around alot about all the professions, I'm slightly stuck with my decision-making.

Currently I'm a mage with the horrible profession setup of mining/engineering. Engineering I will not drop out due to the investment I've put into it and due to the fact I absolutely adore the profession, but mining (despite having dark iron, elementium and hard khorium recipes) I think has time to go. I am likely leveling an alt with mining and getting her the same recipes.

I've been looking for the possible professions to replace my mining with and have narrowed it down to these three. From min/maxing point of view which I care alot the order is JC > Alchemy > Enchanting. On the other hand, I feel enchanting would be the easiest to level up (soloing instances ftw) and would have that nice mageish flavor. JC would end up the most expensive yet offer a reliable income. Alchemy is still just a bit unclear.

In this topic, I'd like to here some point of views to these professions, all their pros and cons. That includes leveling, making money, min/maxing, even personal attachment.

Thank you, I hope you're not already sick and tired of these topics.

[SoulPoetry]

Alchemy only gives you the same benefits as everything else when you are flasked, so I'd put that below the other two. JC is technically the best, as it gives you the same benefits while matching those crappy blue sockets. Enchanting is... eh, in the middle, you'll still have to match the crappy blue sockets.

[Keoren]

I included crazy alchemist's potion when I considered alchemy > enchanting. It seems to have the effect of runic mana potion, plus a reliable potion of speed effect (or some other beneficial effect). Assuming in raids that the enchants and mixology give the same benefit, that potion effect alone would bring alchemy before enchanting.

[Amnamos]

JC will only get worse as the expansion progresses. Right now three 32 spellpower gems gives them 39 spellpower more than if they used three 19 spellpower gems - with the bonus of putting them in blue sockets. However, when epic gems come out (23 spellpower maybe?) they're only going to get 27 spellpower with their special gems, and the bonus of putting them in blue sockets, if they have any. Each new instance has gear itemized better and by the end of BC all caster gear had red/yellow sockets, and I assume it will be similar this expansion - and from what I've seen in Ulduar, it's already getting there quickly. If you really want the best I'd go tailoring, since the new lightweave is pretty amazing imo, though out of those 3 - enchanting for sure. DE greens to make money, have your own mats, DE old gear - great profession.

[SoulPoetry]

I included crazy alchemist's potion when I considered alchemy > enchanting. It seems to have the effect of runic mana potion, plus a reliable potion of speed effect (or some other beneficial effect). Assuming in raids that the enchants and mixology give the same benefit, that potion effect alone would bring alchemy before enchanting.

i'm sure they changed Crazy Alchemist's Potion to not give the haste procs etc anymore.

[Srsbznss]

i have a Spriest. and his origonal proff's where tailor/chanter. i couldnt make any money with him. so i dropped chanting for minning b/c i couldnt afford to lvl it. then i learned the true way to lvl enchanting was NOT to find people to enchant. but rather to sell the mats in the AH.

so i dropped minning after i made some bank and picked it up again. i got stuck around the 270-290 range and gave up. i dropped it again for Alchemy, made some okay money with it. but no herb to go along with it so my proffit margin is small.

i curently have an alt that is my DISenchanter. my DISenchanter makes more money then my main b/c chanting mats are just needed by everybody. people lvling proff's. guilds progressing and getting new lewts often(ty naxx for being so easy).

so in the end. my point here is that since Enchanting gives a dps buff of extra SPower via rings, making it good for raiding, i find that DISenchanting is possibly the easiest way to make money. i'd recomend it.

or you could do what i do on the AH. buy low and sell high on a few items and control the prices and make some serious bank. doesnt matter what proff's you have when u do that.

[Keoren]

Thank you for the feedback. I have decided to go enchanting for now. For now I might lose few dps compared to the other two (depends also whether the potion had the wild magic effect removed or not), but the general benefits seemed reasonable enough for me.

I still welcome all thoughts, they're interesting to read and I might decide again at some point in the future.

[Sidira]

It's funny to me when people compare the runed dragon's eyes to runed scarlet rubies. Anyone who has a clue what they're doing does not put them in red sockets ever. So you're getting far more than 39 sp (not having to use blue gems ever, not having to use orange gems to get good socket bonuses etc). And people keep throwing around how epic gems will make JC worse, well for 3.1, everyone can get a grand total of 1 epic gem and JCs still get to use their DEs. I think that people who assume that the epic gems will be able to be slotted everywhere at some point are in for a rude awakening. It seems like the devs are steering away from TBC model of epic gems. Even if they do allow it in the future, it's not for this patch.

As for better itemization on gear... One just need to look at the gem slots of the staves to see that it's not coming up for this patch. And there will always be at least some blue/yellow slots because they're needed for meta requirements, so JCs will always have the upper hand there.

So from a min/max perspective, JC is still the way to go for 3.1, with tailoring being the potential next best. I'm sticking to JC/enchanting for this patch because I don't believe the devs will let the tailoring proc last as it is on the PTR for very long after release.

[Senrith]

JC will only get worse as the expansion progresses. Right now three 32 spellpower gems gives them 39 spellpower more than if they used three 19 spellpower gems - with the bonus of putting them in blue sockets. However, when epic gems come out (23 spellpower maybe?) they're only going to get 27 spellpower with their special gems, and the bonus of putting them in blue sockets, if they have any.

You're forgetting the part where CSD requires 2 blue gems.

Getting a "double pot" from Alchemy has the chance of being more valuable than the extra 1 spellpower Enchanting gives.

JC > Alchy > Enchy.

Blacksmithing (not included in the OP, but still) becomes a viable choice with epic gems. Right now it's up there with Enchanting.

[Amnamos]

It's funny to me when people compare the runed dragon's eyes to runed scarlet rubies. Anyone who has a clue what they're doing does not put them in red sockets ever. So you're getting far more than 39 sp (not having to use blue gems ever, not having to use orange gems to get good socket bonuses etc). And people keep throwing around how epic gems will make JC worse, well for 3.1, everyone can get a grand total of 1 epic gem and JCs still get to use their DEs. I think that people who assume that the epic gems will be able to be slotted everywhere at some point are in for a rude awakening. It seems like the devs are steering away from TBC model of epic gems. Even if they do allow it in the future, it's not for this patch.

As for better itemization on gear... One just need to look at the gem slots of the staves to see that it's not coming up for this patch. And there will always be at least some blue/yellow slots because they're needed for meta requirements, so JCs will always have the upper hand there.

So from a min/max perspective, JC is still the way to go for 3.1, with tailoring being the potential next best. I'm sticking to JC/enchanting for this patch because I don't believe the devs will let the tailoring proc last as it is on the PTR for very long after release.

Why not compare it to red sockets? Eventually at best you'll put them in yellow sockets when there are no blue sockets left - then your only bonus is getting the meta gem without blue sockets especially when epic gems come out.

As for the staves - this is T8 content, not T9. I've seen a lot more other gem colors in other items but very very few blue sockets. Also - the best weapons were off KT in T7 content, what makes you think the best weapons won't be off Yogg and Algalon in this tier? There is one caster sword in all of Ulduar 25 atm - you think there won't be more? The staff is nice, but there will be more weapons to choose from. It is not a reason JC trumps all.

Why change tailoring? It's a well needed buff, it's a proc not a straight amount of spellpower, and as you claim, other professions are stronger than it already. No reason to change it now.

You're forgetting the part where CSD requires 2 blue gems.

Getting a "double pot" from Alchemy has the chance of being more valuable than the extra 1 spellpower Enchanting gives.

JC > Alchy > Enchy.

Blacksmithing (not included in the OP, but still) becomes a viable choice with epic gems. Right now it's up there with Enchanting.

Sure CSD requires two blue gems, but for mages, spellpower > all, but there is not a huge difference between spellpower gems and spellpower/haste or spellpower/crit (depending on spec). 9 spellpower 8 spirit is basically 9 spellpower 4 or 5 crit with a touch of mana regen. Sure it's not as good still, but it's definitely not bad like it used to be. The bonuses JC had at the beginning of this expansion are diminishing and will continue to diminish unless bliz changes something.

One other thing - of these - enchanting is by far the easiest/cheapest to level. JC - gotta buy tons of mats unless you have a miner, Alch - same except herbalist, enchanting - either buy mats or go solo Dead mines once or twice, next tier instance, etc. etc. So easy to level, so easy to make money off of - every old piece of gear you don't need - instant 100G for that shard (or one shard you don't have to buy for new gear - and 100G is about average price of shards on my server).

[Sidira]

Why not compare it to red sockets? Eventually at best you'll put them in yellow sockets when there are no blue sockets left - then your only bonus is getting the meta gem without blue sockets especially when epic gems come out.

As for the staves - this is T8 content, not T9. I've seen a lot more other gem colors in other items but very very few blue sockets. Also - the best weapons were off KT in T7 content, what makes you think the best weapons won't be off Yogg and Algalon in this tier? There is one caster sword in all of Ulduar 25 atm - you think there won't be more? The staff is nice, but there will be more weapons to choose from. It is not a reason JC trumps all.

Why change tailoring? It's a well needed buff, it's a proc not a straight amount of spellpower, and as you claim, other professions are stronger than it already. No reason to change it now.

Sure CSD requires two blue gems, but for mages, spellpower > all, but there is not a huge difference between spellpower gems and spellpower/haste or spellpower/crit (depending on spec). 9 spellpower 8 spirit is basically 9 spellpower 4 or 5 crit with a touch of mana regen. Sure it's not as good still, but it's definitely not bad like it used to be. The bonuses JC had at the beginning of this expansion are diminishing and will continue to diminish unless bliz changes something.

One other thing - of these - enchanting is by far the easiest/cheapest to level. JC - gotta buy tons of mats unless you have a miner, Alch - same except herbalist, enchanting - either buy mats or go solo Dead mines once or twice, next tier instance, etc. etc. So easy to level, so easy to make money off of - every old piece of gear you don't need - instant 100G for that shard (or one shard you don't have to buy for new gear - and 100G is about average price of shards on my server).

You can't compare them to runed scarlet rubies for the fact that regardless of what color gem slots your gear has, if you're not a JC you *have* to have 2 blue gems in order to use CSD. Yes, spirit is a slight crit bump now, making blue gems less of a dps loss than sp/stam gems were. And for gem slot colors I think it's safe to say mage gear will always have at least 2, cause otherwise the itemization would force non-jc's to break a socket bonus in order to activate a meta (which players don't have a problem with doing, but the devs have yet to force this). Gear itemization will always have potential to activate any meta. Will blue and yellow slots become less prevalent, we can all hope so, but realistically they will always be there. Look at the T6 set, there was 1 red socket, so your argument that slots will get better as we progressed based on what's been in the past doesn't hold up on that information. Sure, weapons, wands, cloaks, may have better gem options, but we're always going to have some amount of tier gear.

Why will the devs likely change tailoring? Because if one profession clearly trumps the benefits of all the otherwise it can and will be "balanced". I agree the benefits of JC are and will continue to diminish, that is why devs haven't "balanced" it yet because they know exactly what changes will be upcoming that will keep it in line with the others.

You're arguing against JC based on stuff that's at patches away, that may or may not happen. I'm arguing it's still powerful based on 3.1. Yes, the amount by which it's powerful took a hit with the storm jewels and the change to spirit, but still, it's the second best profession option currently. And if the devs decide to cut down the tailoring a bit, it may become first again.

[Amnamos]

All arguments for JC though point to it being unbalanced. Being able to enforce a meta without using blue gems, comparing only to blue gems, thus you gain FAR more than the 38 spellpower most professions get - so nerf tailoring? why would they? If JC is as good as you claim it to be, it should be nerfed.

Yes if you look at the T6 mage sets there was one red socket. However red or orange are both good for mages, and when you look at the list of BiS items from sunwell, you end up with only 1 blue socket I believe (haven't looked at that gear in awhile) and you end up having to get one more blue gem elsewhere. The point isn't "you get full red sockets" - it's you reduce blue sockets. There is not a huge difference in straight sp gems and sp/haste gems.

As I've been saying - I think JC is in the same position you think tailoring is in right now. Using what you said, if you compare 32 spellpower to 9 spellpower/8spirit gems you're getting 69 spellpower over other mages who don't have JC (they get 24 spirit/about 11 crit rating and yes this is assuming 3 blue gems, when you should only have 2 for the sake of argument). And you say that JC will need a buff? When epic gems come out JC will balance out. Until then it will be on the same level you claim tailoring is on right now. You seem to think every other profession may be nerfed but JC has GOT to be #1 and will be buffed, but that's not the case.

If anyone is going to pick between these three - to me the obvious choice is enchanting unless you want to spend a lot of gold leveling up a profession that has a high chance of not being as good in the future as it is now, or you want to rely on flasks for your spellpower buffs (if you pvp at all - bad idea!)

[Swizzle]

i love how all of you think the current prismatics are the only ones we'll see...

[Amnamos]

But why should they add more? When JC is already one of the top professions and is only going to balance out later, why make it better later? That's the argument, your condescending remark like you know there will be more is just you spewing BS unless you want to offer some definitive proof.

[Swizzle]

give me proof they won't. point being, we're all talking out of our asses. the only ones who know are blizz devs, so everything we say is like me claiming jesus is an asian midget: you can't prove it wrong or right.

[Amnamos]

No need to be condescending about it then eh?

Irregardless of that - what I am saying is simply following logic to give some semblance of believability to a claim that JC will not receive any more prismatic gems. I'm not saying it is 100% set in stone that it won't, I'm saying it makes sense that it won't.

[Sidira]

I never once said JC needs a buff. I'm frankly surprised it hasn't gotten squashed yet. I did say that it's probable the devs haven't altered it because of something that is forthcoming that will bring it down to par with the other professions. I don't think new prismatics will be implemented *if* epic gems are introduced and made to be able to slot everywhere (though I don't really think that will be happening, but that's different topic).

I also never spoke of ease of leveling any of the professions. I found my second go with leveling JC on my alt to be far easier than leveling enchanting on my main, but that's just me, ymmv.

My original point was that you can't compare 3 DEs to 3 runed scarlet rubies when determining the benefit gained from the profession. CURRENTLY it's a better comparison to compare 3 DEs to 2x sp/spirit and 1 runed SR. All of the speculation of what's coming and what that will do to the profession is moot, because it's all uncertain.

As for tailoring, we've established that JC is OP and tailoring provides twice the dps bump that JC does, which makes it far more OP in comparison to enchanting, alchemy, engineering etc. which is why I believe it will be changed. Again, so you don't put words in my mouth, I'm not crying for a nerf to it, I'm simply stating that I won't be surprised if it happens.