Kitty Discussion. Armor pen > Agi?

[enigmaran]

Ha ok idiot you can only get it so high before it stops having as much effect. If you dont balance your stats then have fun being a sub par player and how bout you actually put some more contex in it.. look at when the post was written... anything said before hand is void as a "THOUGHT" of what it would be and what actually is. Aka suck it.

aka you're wrong - armor pen becomes better as you get more of it - it's not like hit which becomes useless to increase once you pass a certain point

[Remle]

Good god, no... you cant get more than 20% armor pen without sacrificing a large amount of other stats and its not worth it. Say you wanna gem for 40% ArP you will not able to get a decent amount of AP or Crit or hit and then.... oh that ArP is usless. All i am saying is you have to even out things... same goes for crit... you can have all the crit in the word but if you dont have alot of AP hit then its not going matter.

[Paskgotsheal]

Good god, no... you cant get more than 20% armor pen without sacrificing a large amount of other stats and its not worth it. Say you wanna gem for 40% ArP you will not able to get a decent amount of AP or Crit or hit and then.... oh that ArP is usless. All i am saying is you have to even out things... same goes for crit... you can have all the crit in the word but if you dont have alot of AP hit then its not going matter.

You're so retarded. Armor pen gets better as you get more of it. There for having say 2% less crit and 200 less AP but 20% more armor pen is MUCH more benefical then that 200 ap and 2% crit. God i hate idiots.

[Alski]

Also, for those who say getting above 50% crit doesnt deminish... i promise it does in the field because like the guy said before i am also at about 55% crit and bleed crit never goes above 51% and melee the same maybe 52 if lucky. Even when the other druid with pure agi and got close to 60% it did not go above 52%.

Boss mobs (higher lvl = less crit for you)
Bad RNG
lack of hit
lack of expertise

there are several things that can explain it, but crit is still just as good all the way upto 75% crit. the reason people say aim for 50% crit is so you have enough combo points to keep up a solid rotation.

[sd78]

Isn't 54.5% the crit softcap?

[d9d9]

As blizzard mentioned there is UP TO in front of xx% arp. So there are no guaranties that when you have 20% arp you will penetrate even a 10%.

[getefix]

there are several things that can explain it, but crit is still just as good all the way upto 75% crit. the reason people say aim for 50% crit is so you have enough combo points to keep up a solid rotation.

as well as pre 3.1 it meant your FB would always crit.

As blizzard mentioned there is UP TO in front of xx% arp. So there are no guaranties that when you have 20% arp you will penetrate even a 10%.

Blizz has a different way of calculating armor pen than just "X% less armor". You won't ever get half of your armor pen, maybe 15% less.

Okay, here is a fairly technical explanation we put together for how armor pen works.

We didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against low armor targets, like it had been in BC. We also didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against high armor targets.

So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.

Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C. C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):

If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59);

For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.

The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.

A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).

These equations should help you be able to test and verify that Armor Penetration Rating is working correctly and as we designed. The tooltip is not actually inaccurate, as it states: “Enemy armor reduced by up to 30.00%.” That "up to" is key.

Please be sure to test without any other effects which modify the armor calculation (Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, Mace Specialization, etc.) as they may involve other systems that add additional complexity to the calculation.

Good god, no... you cant get more than 20% armor pen without sacrificing a large amount of other stats and its not worth it. Say you wanna gem for 40% ArP you will not able to get a decent amount of AP or Crit or hit and then.... oh that ArP is usless. All i am saying is you have to even out things... same goes for crit... you can have all the crit in the word but if you dont have alot of AP hit then its not going matter.

It is worth it. With Arms Warriors being so common we're likely to see a lot more targets with Trauma on them. This means more Shreds, and more Shreds means longer Rips so even more Shreds.

No one would ever sacrifice their hit/expertise for more ArPen. Those stats should be concrete. But ArPen is still better than Agil after the 220 mark. Personally I will wait until I achieve that with gear before I consider gemming for ArPen.