Torn - Prot pally specs

[Senkrads]

Spec
5/51/15 - 15% Seal and Judgement inc dmg, 5%(8% if there is no other pally with Heart of the Crusader) crit.
2/51/18 - 6% Seal and Judgement inc dmg, 8%(11% if there is no other pally with Heart of the Crusader) crit and also inc the dmg of Exorcism by 15%

Glyphs
MG - 5/51/15
Divine Plea
Seal of Righteousness/Seal of Vengeance/Exorcism
Consecrate/Judgement

MG - 2/51/18
Divine Plea
Exorcism
Consecrate/Judgement/Seal of Righteousness/Seal of Vengeance

mG
Lay on Hands
Sense Undead
Blessing of Kings

Rotation
HS-HoR-Judge-SoR-Exo-HoR-HS-SoR-Judge-HoR-Cons

That is it, those two are my pick for the best tanking spec.
I need thoughts, questions, ideas, and overall input.

One thing is for sure, I wish Blizzard would switch Heart of the Crusader with Sanctity of Battle.

[Senkrads]

The Glyphs don't matter much to me as long as 2/51/18 has Exorcism. Just fyi.

[arees]

ton of math and charts in this thread.

The guys at maintankadin have shown that this is the superior spec for mitigation/threat. Put the points in benediction in heart of the crusader if you don't have a ret pally. The 3 points in reck and improved joJ are filler... they can go where ever you want. Two points can come out of conviction to get pursuit of justice.

Here is a thread that shows the dps and tps per point of each threat increasing talent. You can see that crusade is better than seals of the pure.

Always use Seal of Vengeance for tanking. Its the highest in dps and tps.

Rotation follows a 96969.... pattern. Never use exorcism* except for the pull. An example of a 969 rotation is
HotR -> Judge -> ShoR -> HS -> HotR -> Cons -> ShoR -> Judge -> HotR -> HS
You will never have cooldown collisions if you follow a 969 rotation.

* The only way to get a dps increase using exorcism is to glyph it, and sub it in for every other judgement. This is only a tiny slight dps/tps increase and risks having Judgement of the Just falling off and increasing the amount of damage you take.

Required glyphs:
Divine Plea

Really good glyphs:
Judgement
Seal of Vengeance
Righteous Defense

Bad glyphs (dont use ever):
Consecration (breaks 969 rotation)
Seal of Righteousness (use SoV)

[Offhand]

You need to do a LOT of research.

For starters, 0/2 spiritual attunement just doesn't work. At the very least, you should get 1/2, and even then, it's not always the best course of action.

5/5 reckoning. Reckoning is a terrible talent, it's only worth white hits when it procs because SoV doesn't stack past 5.

Imp hammer of justice: What does this do? Pick up judgments of the just instead.

Imp devo aura, no reason not to have this.

Divine guardian or divinity, both better filler then imp HoJ.

Seals of the pure and conviction are point-for-point on par with one another. Crusade, however, is a vastly superior threat talent. Once you pick up 1/2 imp judge and deflection, it doesn't matter where the other 4 points go to get you further into the ret tree.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdgobx0c

The exo/cons 9696 rotation is roughly 20 more TPS then the average 96969 rotation (in full BiS t7) and it requires glyph of cons for that additional output. Using glyph of avenger's shield is a better TPS increase and still not recommended.

Glyphs: Should be divine plea, SoV, and one for personal preference. Minors are really not important, sense undead, LoH, whatever you prefer.

[beefcannon]

OP fails

[Tyneside]

On 1/2 SA:

1/2 SA will provide enough mana return to keep you running as long as you take like 2k DTPS. For any boss this will be true. For any trash where this is not true (lots of little things that hit for 0 because of your shield) you will likely make up the difference with BoSanc. For all current raid content 1/2 SA will suffice... assuming you actually tank.

[arees]

Imp hammer of justice: What does this do? Pick up judgments of the just instead.

The exo/cons 9696 rotation is roughly 20 more TPS then the average 96969 rotation (in full BiS t7) and it requires glyph of cons for that additional output. Using glyph of avenger's shield is a better TPS increase and still not recommended.

We can talent HoJ to 20 sec cd and it acts as an interrupt. You are using this against kel aren't you?

The consecration glyph causes cooldown clashes with 969 no matter what gear you have. Avoid it.

[Saraduahn]

ton of math and charts in this thread.

The guys at maintankadin have shown that this is the superior spec for mitigation/threat. Put the points in benediction in heart of the crusader if you don't have a ret pally. The 3 points in reck and improved joJ are filler... they can go where ever you want. Two points can come out of conviction to get pursuit of justice.

Here is a thread that shows the dps and tps per point of each threat increasing talent. You can see that crusade is better than seals of the pure.

Always use Seal of Vengeance for tanking. Its the highest in dps and tps.

Rotation follows a 96969.... pattern. Never use exorcism* except for the pull. An example of a 969 rotation is
HotR -> Judge -> ShoR -> HS -> HotR -> Cons -> ShoR -> Judge -> HotR -> HS
You will never have cooldown collisions if you follow a 969 rotation.

* The only way to get a dps increase using exorcism is to glyph it, and sub it in for every other judgement. This is only a tiny slight dps/tps increase and risks having Judgement of the Just falling off and increasing the amount of damage you take.

Required glyphs:
Divine Plea

Really good glyphs:
Judgement
Seal of Vengeance
Righteous Defense

Bad glyphs (dont use ever):
Consecration (breaks 969 rotation)
Seal of Righteousness (use SoV)

All of this is dead-on. Only two minor notes...
- You might want to take Exorcism glyph over Righteous Defense (it should be in the "good glyphs" category), if you're comfortable with the fact that you now have two taunts to use if Righteous Defense gets resisted (although it's still nice to have).
- Relative tps value of Seal of Vengeance drops a bit below the Judgement glyph once you are at or very close to the expertise soft cap.
- Glyph of Divine Plea has to be discovered I believe, so it may be a few days (weeks?) until you find people on your server who have it, and/or who have it and won't completely screw you in the cost to craft it.

[Senkrads]

The reason for the Cons glyph is for when you use Exo over cons. by the time you start the rot over again Cons will be back up.

[arees]

- Glyph of Divine Plea has to be discovered I believe, so it may be a few days (weeks?) until you find people on your server who have it, and/or who have it and won't completely screw you in the cost to craft it.

Actually I found out from a guild scribe last night that this glyph is learned from a book that is a world drop =(

Expect it to cost several hundred gold....

[Offhand]

We can talent HoJ to 20 sec cd and it acts as an interrupt. You are using this against kel aren't you?

The consecration glyph causes cooldown clashes with 969 no matter what gear you have. Avoid it.

Interrupts are not the tanks job.

Consecration glyph works only in a very specific rotation, read what I had said again slowly. In my opinion, 20 TPS is not worth a major glyph slot.

[Tyneside]

Interrupts are not the tanks job.

If it keeps you alive, it's your job. You know damn well you can't always expect DPS to pay attention to things that don't cause big numbers.


That said, I wouldn't take Imp. HoJ. 40 sec is nice enough for me. Spending the talents on 20 doesn't seem worth it. Currently I've got 3/5 Divinity. If I wasn't tanking things constantly I (maybe) would go for DS/DG.

[Senkrads]

The Imp HoJ is there just as filler, it can go any where else.
The Consecration Glyph was there for the rumor that it was going to be able to crit.
While on the PTR training dumby I never needed SA to keep my mana pool alive, Divine Plea was a god and scales well with Kings and Arc Int.

[Offhand]

If it keeps you alive, it's your job. You know damn well you can't always expect DPS to pay attention to things that don't cause big numbers.

That said, I wouldn't take Imp. HoJ. 40 sec is nice enough for me. Spending the talents on 20 doesn't seem worth it. Currently I've got 3/5 Divinity. If I wasn't tanking things constantly I (maybe) would go for DS/DG.

When you're guild fails pretty numbers are a concern. Thinking a 20-40 second cooldown on the GCD is going to save your ass is a pretty bad assumption.

[Horn]

[color=navy]http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=000000000000000000000000000500503502311231133331232154100050000300000000000000&gl yph=000000000000&version=9767#
Is what I will be running as a secondary spec.
Going to try Glyph of Salvation out and see how it works for me; 20% less damage just looks like an extra *Oh shit* button, and we all can use more of those. :P

[fxcw]

0/53/18 is what I have been going with and I have to say I am very happy with it, no mana problems very good threat and some decent, for tanks at least, dps.

I would wan tot have the divine plea glyph and probably the hammer of the righteous glyph but have not found any yet, might consider the salvation one but seems a bit like russian roulette on the threat front :P

[arees]

I went with this variation of the 0/53/18 spec.

I did heroic HoL last night for a guildy that needed it on his alt. I still have all the same survival talents, so that doesn't really change. But, I now have conviction and crusade. I was doing nearly 2300dps. The only buffs I had were kings, sanc, wis, and the DK horn. Pre 3.1 I was doing good to pull 2500 dps in heroic naxx... I bet I could go in naxx now and pull 3k dps easy.

[Lumidar]

why is there 1 point in reckoning in that 1 suggested spec. why not just put it in Sacrifice for utility during raids. I'm actually using it in Ulduar. like on Deconstructor's Tantrum (with bubble cus there's no aggro). I use it on those Fire tornado trash pulls at ignus (with shield wall)

alot more useful to save the raid instead of a small chance of increasing a little white damage.

[arees]

why is there 1 point in reckoning in that 1 suggested spec. why not just put it in Sacrifice for utility during raids. I'm actually using it in Ulduar. like on Deconstructor's Tantrum (with bubble cus there's no aggro). I use it on those Fire tornado trash pulls at ignus (with shield wall)

alot more useful to save the raid instead of a small chance of increasing a little white damage.

I put it there because I see no use for sacrifice while MTing. I haven't done ulduar yet though.... going in tonight; so I'll see then, but for now I'm not taking it. In the suggested spec I posted, I said that there were 3 points that you could put where ever; that they were filler points. I put mine in 2/2 imp HoJ and 1 in reck.

Another reason I put 1 in reckoning was for the increased proc rate on the new tanking enchant, but from what I've read it sucks, so I'll be sticking with +20 str for a while longer.

[Djstinky]

i have been looking at many prot pally specs since 3.1 has come out and i have been really confused at some of the specs i have been seeing. i was thinking of going... http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9767

Now i can explain.

Well lets start with Divine sacrafice. I am not going to waste my points in there until there is a fight that requires it. when the fight comes around, i will spend one respec to get it.

I will not get reckoning because yea it might help you with some single target threat but its not worth the five pointer.

There have been much arguing over ardent defender. I will not get it because if you get down to 35% health... you should either get a heal really fast, or the next hit will kill you. I have not been in ulduar yet but i have heard from guildies that some of the bosses in there are meleeing for over 27k

Now finally in the prot tree... i will not get JoJ because we have a warrior in the guild. and im not going to waste 2 points basically for a PvP talent.

Now for the other stuff.....

I will put 15 points in ret.

I will put 5 points in conviction for threat and also i will put 5 points in SotP for threat. I will not put points in PoJ because i can get an enchant on my boots so that i do not waste 2 talent points.

The reason i am posting this is because i have seen a bunch of people putting 1/2 or 0/2 in SA. WHY?

Blizzard didn't put it in the prot tree for people to all of a sudden decide it's shitty. Prot needs it, so spend your 2 points.

Please comment thanks.