Thread: disc or holy?

  1. #1

    disc or holy?

    so i healed last night in ulduar with my guild for the first time. im DISC. so as im healing i get questioned on if im actaully healing. i ask why and the response was "well your mana is always full" and they show the o so trusty healing charts. and im seconded on the charts only like 10k behind the first placed healer. so BAM in there face i said. after this i get told i should go holy with no reasoning behind it other than "priests are suppose to be holy"

    so my question is, why the hell would i wanna go holy over disc when the guild im in ONLY does 10 mans and the guild leader is a resto shammy and co leader a resto druid. can anyone give me a soild reason why i should go holy over disc?

  2. #2
    Dreadlord
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    Re: disc or holy?

    There is no good reason to go Holy over Discipline; both are good healing specs, they just specialize differently. Whoever is judging Discipline purely off of healing meters just doesn't understand that Discipline may ultimately be a lackluster there, but a good chunk of what they bring is absorption (Divine Aegis and Power Word: Shield) and mitigation (Renewed Hope and Inspiration). Chances are that if you were only 10k behind the first place healer, then you were actually probably beating him pretty substantially.

    Tell whoever questioned you to read up on Discipline Priests. I'm even Holy myself, and it's definitely my preference, but I get sick of having to defend our guild's Discipline Priest against people wondering why he's often near the bottom of the healing meters.

  3. #3

    Re: disc or holy?

    @ Zeuq Took the words write out of my keyboard.

    Too many ppl take meters too seriously, DPS meters are far more accurate in registering ppls abilities however even then they can be misleading. e.g on our OS103d kill a spriest was topping the meters easily (because devouring plague was being spread by our dk), however on Tenebron he was only doing 200k dmg when the rest of the dps was around 350k.

    Anyway Healing meters can and should only be used as a guideline.

  4. #4

    Re: disc or holy?

    Agreed with everyone. Disc is awesome, im holy, but your right to be disc in a 10 man group with a shammy.

    Ill also say grats to only being 10k below top heals, I run 25s with 2 holy priests, no disc. But when we did have one he was never anywhere near the top.

    I dont know what disc is like now since 3.1, is it better/worse?


    I glyphed into prayer of healing, and OMG, topped heals on Xt-200 BIG TIME. Having this ability to use as disc makes you an all around healing machine again.

  5. #5

    Re: disc or holy?

    I've been a Holy Priest since forever. But, in 10mans, I spec Disco. Having no CD on PW:S means you can easily preempt AoE damage if needed, without crippling your ability to keep the tank topped. Especially if your running with a Resto shammy.

    I've developed a keen appreciation for both specs, and switch back and forth liberally with dual-spec depending on the fight.

    Discipline is far better in 3.1 than 3.0.9, even with the rapture nerf. If, for some crazy reason, you start dipping under 10%, pop SF then HoH. Even if you aren't able to get the full channel from HoH, the + 20% mana pool will make your SF restore mana like crazy for 8sec.

    The argument of Disco over Holy is specious at best. Both bring great benefit to a raid in their own unique way. Disco is crazy mana efficient and brings 3% damage mitigation to the entire raid, amongst other things. Holy, imo, is the absolute best AoE healing spec in the game atm. The ability to go nuts and heal for two when needed is a boon to any raid, especially on progression fights.

    I think the Disco priest will take time to gain acceptance as healing strategies for this spec are very new. People aren't use to the preventative healing that, currently, cannot be calculated easily by a mod/WWS.

    @frozenshade: If you are running 10s with a resto shammy & resto druid, you should be Disco. Period.


  6. #6

    Re: disc or holy?

    What's better than healing? Preventive healing.

    Less people overhealing and less mana wastage.

  7. #7

    Re: disc or holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    There is no good reason to go Holy over Discipline; both are good healing specs, they just specialize differently. Whoever is judging Discipline purely off of healing meters just doesn't understand that Discipline may ultimately be a lackluster there, but a good chunk of what they bring is absorption (Divine Aegis and Power Word: Shield) and mitigation (Renewed Hope and Inspiration). Chances are that if you were only 10k behind the first place healer, then you were actually probably beating him pretty substantially.

    Tell whoever questioned you to read up on Discipline Priests. I'm even Holy myself, and it's definitely my preference, but I get sick of having to defend our guild's Discipline Priest against people wondering why he's often near the bottom of the healing meters.
    This is true.. Shield absorbs =/= healing.. so healing meters arent rly what priests would ever be on top unless being holy and spamming CoH on cd and flash heal.

    Disc is gud.

  8. #8

    Re: disc or holy?

    aren't you not sposed to shield warrior and druid tanks though?
    They gain rage by taking dmg, if u shield them > take no dmg > get less rage > cant hold aggro > raid dies > :'(

  9. #9

    Re: disc or holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by frozenshade
    "priests are suppose to be holy"
    no offense but if both of your gm and co-gm are healers yet they didn't attempt to defend your position as a discipline priest then you should either tell them to either l2understand-wotlk-changes or /gquit. especially since it looks as if your raid healing part are already covered and all you need is a solid single target healer (= disco).

    i understand that they are not priests themselves but as raid healers, they should know about which healing spec is good for what, as well as their basic mechanics.

    man i feel harsh...but i'm getting rather annoying-ed at all the discrimination towards discipline priests.

    Quote Originally Posted by crespo007
    aren't you not sposed to shield warrior and druid tanks though?
    They gain rage by taking dmg, if u shield them > take no dmg > get less rage > cant hold aggro > raid dies > :'(
    priest shields have been changed so that tanks still gain rage/aggro while shielded. this was covered in the patch notes.

  10. #10

    Re: disc or holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by frozenshade
    after this i get told i should go holy with no reasoning behind it other than "priests are suppose to be holy"
    Prejudice => ignorance => stupidity.
    If there's any reason for you to respec, it's certainly not because you're supposed to.

    *The field in which holy wins in comparison to disc is their overall raid-wide healing capabilities - namely Circle of Healing - which allows them to cover more ground when raid healing in terms of HPS.
    *Guardian Spirit being the one utility spell Holy has, while Disc has 3, but still is a great talent, and it will become very meaningful the harder the raid becomes in terms of keeping the tank alive... and it can prevent wipes rather often when used properly.
    *Even though mana regen remains the same, holy gains spell power through spirit, while disc does not.
    *Well, the only other thing that makes holy worth while is bot relying on Penance's cooldown, as your main healing spell... this means that your full potential is at all times, regardless of what spell you last casted.
    Original creator of the PointlessThread++;

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: disc or holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artex

    *Well, the only other thing that makes holy worth while is bot relying on Penance's cooldown, as your main healing spell... this means that your full potential is at all times, regardless of what spell you last casted.
    I disagree with the reliance on penance, with imp renew brought in penance has become less the bread and butter spell and moreso the buffer spell.

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  12. #12

    Re: disc or holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teul

    Anyway Healing meters can and should only be used as a guideline.
    True but when you see yourself as dunno 2000 hps
    and someone with 125 hps being a resto druid - you know something is up.
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)

    I'm honestly frightened by what is taking place on the BlizzCon forum.*

  13. #13

    Re: disc or holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gzilia
    True but when you see yourself as dunno 2000 hps
    and someone with 125 hps being a resto druid - you know something is up.
    Like the two Holy Priests that spam Circle of Healing on alternating cooldowns, and sniping with Surge of Light no matter how many HoTs a target has on themselves? Right.
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  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: disc or holy?

    We killed 3+Lootathan bosses on our first tour in Ulduar, and I've done 1 as Disc and 2 as Holy, they both work really well, to sum it up is as SpiritusVex said.
    On the 2 bosses as Holy (Razorscale/Deconstructor) I've been 2nd and 3rd on healing out of 7 healers, 2 paladins 2 holy priests 2 resto druids and 1 resto shaman.
    On the boss as Disc (Ko-lol-ogarn) I've ended up 6th, only ahead one of the resto druids, and casted PW:S 73 times, consider it absorbs around 7k, and not even all of the Shields absorbed their full capability, it'd have been around 300-400k "prevented heals".

    As long as people won't recognize the usefulness of Disc everyone will keep turning up one's nose because they don't see them flying high on the meters, and I'm still convinced that the only way to turn the habit is to add something on WoW log to be able to be recorded on Recount/WWS some "prevented heals from shields" that adds on healings done.

  15. #15

    Re: disc or holy?

    Disc priest in our raid last night had a module for Recount that guesses at absorption amounts

    RecountGuessedAbsorbs

    Gives you something to spam back at healing meter spammers at least

  16. #16

    Re: disc or holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by crespo007
    aren't you not sposed to shield warrior and druid tanks though?
    They gain rage by taking dmg, if u shield them > take no dmg > get less rage > cant hold aggro > raid dies > :'(

    No it hasn't been that way since BC. with the release of Wrath you can and should sheild. only exception can be Pallys and mana regen. But i still sheild all my tanks.

    I used to get why did you ask me to invite that this priest he is Disc thats PVP at best. Untill the end of the raid and there like WOW Disc priest rock.

  17. #17

    Re: disc or holy?

    Meh Resto Shaman/Druid.

    Tell them to go reroll a Priest or STFU and stick to worrying about their own class.

  18. #18

    Re: disc or holy?

    holy is a mana hog. i prefer disc over holy. i like to use my shields and get my mana back relatively quick. I get asked the same questions as well. My response is "did anybody die?"

  19. #19

    Re: disc or holy?

    Quote Originally Posted by frozenshade
    so i healed last night in ulduar with my guild for the first time. im DISC. so as im healing i get questioned on if im actaully healing. i ask why and the response was "well your mana is always full" and they show the o so trusty healing charts. and im seconded on the charts only like 10k behind the first placed healer. so BAM in there face i said. after this i get told i should go holy with no reasoning behind it other than "priests are suppose to be holy"

    so my question is, why the hell would i wanna go holy over disc when the guild im in ONLY does 10 mans and the guild leader is a resto shammy and co leader a resto druid. can anyone give me a soild reason why i should go holy over disc?
    Please send your leader to this thread, and more specifically, this post of mine.

    Dear Frozenshade's leader,

     You have 0% understanding of the priest class. First off, Discipline mana regen is amazing. It was OP before patch and now it's just really good. Not only do we energize ourselves, we give mana/energy/runicpower/rage to people at the same time.

     You need to add 25-50% of his healing to what you see on the chart. Charts do not pick up all the damage that we PREVENT. With Divine Aegis stacking now and SPAMMABLE (no CD) PW:Shield, the damage prevented is MUCH higher after the patch, so you're missing MUCH more on the charts. If he's only 10k under first place, chances are he's actually 200k over him counting 3% damage reduction on EVERYONE (depends on the paladin situation of course) PW:S and DA.

     There is no "supposed to" anything with priests. There are situations where Holy will shine and that's heavy raid damage fights but to be honest, I do pretty good on those with Power Infusion + Borrowed Time(shield spam) + targetable Prayer of Healing now. Not to mention the shield spamming in itself actually covers much of the raid damage now. If I know something big is coming I can cover a 10 man raid in PW:S in seconds.

     Using Power Infusion on DPS also ups the raid DPS, and we can spit out 3-4 of those per fight. New Rapture can help DPS also by getting an extra attack in after getting energized with rage/energy/etc...could even help a tank keep his TPS up by getting off an extra attack or 2. Warrior and DK tanks have claimed "noticing" the extra resources they get from PW:S every 12 seconds.

             Yours Truly,
                    Glowyrm

    I in no way hate Holy or think Discipline is better. I dual-spec both and switch often. I simply wanted to explain how utterly wrong this guys raid leader is. By his reading of the healing meter to the blunt forcing of a spec change.

    Discipline is more excepted than ever, and even REVERED by many now. There are still a LARGE AMOUNT of UNEDUCATED people on the subject of Discipline healing and they need to do their homework.

    Long post is long, I know...but tell your leader to read it and anyone else interested in Discipline or anyone who thinks Holy is automatically better, "just because" or "it's supposed to be".

    Also, this "myth" needs to die...

    Quote Originally Posted by crespo007
    aren't you not sposed to shield warrior and druid tanks though?
    They gain rage by taking dmg, if u shield them > take no dmg > get less rage > cant hold aggro > raid dies >  :'(
    Actually, not only is this not true anymore, but PW:S now GIVES RAGE every 12 seconds! Which I talked about in my lengthy post above

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  20. #20

    Re: disc or holy?

    Both?
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

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