Spiked Titansteel Vs Helm of Unsubmissive?

[egowhip]

I have both these helms and was gonna try out the Helm of the unsubmissive.

I figure Haste might be nice and Stam seems to be needed lately as well.

Here is the comparison:

http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=39403;41386

Any thoughts?

[Miseration]

This is a good question and one i've been wondering about for my fury warrior.. I rock the Helm of Unsubmissive but, I was wondering if the TS helm would be better.

[Grinch]

For a dps:er, when would 96 sta and 70 haste EVER be better than 23 str, 44 crit and 24 hit? O.o I seriously can't see any time at all.

[Adamson]

titansteel helm for sure.

You lose ~60ap, 44 crit, and 24 hit by using the helm of the unsubmissive.

All you gain by using the haste helm is just that, haste.

>:/

haste is not good. It's worse than crit sever still and you're losing crit/hit/ap to gain haste.

Think before you ask questions.

[egowhip]

Think before you answer!

I was asking due to the new roll SOM plays with judgments not being as powerful and more dps weighted. Also, stuff in Ulduar hits hard and some extra survivabilty would be nice for my healers.

There is no need for a smart-ass "think before you ask a question" comment.

If you don't like my question then don't post an answer douche-bag!

[Adamson]

Think before you answer!

I was asking due to the new roll SOM plays with judgments not being as powerful and more dps weighted. Also, stuff in Ulduar hits hard and some extra survivability would be nice for my healers.

Between sacred shield, bubble, and flash heals, 1,000 extra hp isn't game breaking. Moving your focus to moving out of the aoe more quickly would do more than moving focus to stamina related gear.

How many elitist players do you think even consider stamina when looking at dps upgrades?

If you have problems surviving as a plate wearer with instant cast heals you need to be questioning your playability and your healers. Ulduar is hard, but if you're dying before mages/enhance shamans then something is wrong.

There is no need for a smart-ass "think before you ask a question" comment.

If you don't like my question then don't post an answer douche-bag!

I didn't have a problem with your question, otherwise I wouldn't have answered it.

[Kuthumii]

He is right, had you actually put your mind to it, you probably would have drawn your own conclusion.

Think before you ask.

Or - Read before you ask..........there are plenty of tools that you can use to figure this out. Rawr, Bellator (sp) spreadsheet, Redcape's Calculator (sp).

Take the time to try to inform yourself before asking a question.

[davep]

You gain 3 more higher ranked stats from TS helm and only 1 lower ranked stat from Helm of Unsubmissive, this is a pretty obvious choice...


Strength > Hit > Expertise > Crit > Agility > Haste > Armor Penetration > Attack Power

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t49865-p...ion_pve/#Stats

[Gomexus]

You lose ~60ap, 44 crit, and 24 hit by using the helm of the unsubmissive.

You lose 23str...which is only 46ap...50ap including Kings. The 24 hit rating may not be all important if you have enough over the cap to be able to drop some.

So realistically you're trading ~1% crit and 50ap max...for 2.x% haste. I won't try to do the math on it...but with the recent changes to SoM/B it seems as though haste is not as bad as it has been. The on swing damage was increased by a good bit...so haste giving more melee swings will equate to more dmg from Seal procs. Will the extra damage overcome ~1% crit and 50ap? I dunno about shorter fights...but for longer fights I could definitely see it being a possibility.

Imo if you're not worried about losing 1% crit and 50ap I'd go for the haste and see how it works out for ya..if dps is roughly the same or just a little less I'd go for the haste helm...extra stam never hurt anyone.

Very few times will you get an upgrade that has the exact same stats as your current piece...it's a give and take.

[gringo]

You lose 23str...which is only 46ap...50ap including Kings.

/sigh
This is a Ret Paladin thread. 23 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 2 = 58,19.

[Adamson]

You lose 23str...which is only 46ap...50ap including Kings. The 24 hit rating may not be all important if you have enough over the cap to be able to drop some.

No, 23strenght is 58.19 ap once you factor in kings and the 15% strength bonus.

Imo if you're not worried about losing 1% crit and 50ap I'd go for the haste and see how it works out for ya..if dps is roughly the same or just a little less I'd go for the haste helm...extra stam never hurt anyone.

There's no "trying it out"

He's losing a fair amount of 3 more desired stats to gain some of a lesser stat.

Bellators spreadsheet, RAWR, and redcapes spreadsheet all put this helmet very low.

[Gomexus]

No, 23strenght is 58.19 ap once you factor in kings and the 15% strength bonus.

Doh, I forgot the 15% str modifier...its 8ap difference from what I stated...still not a huge loss imo.

There's no "trying it out"

He's losing a fair amount of 3 more desired stats to gain some of a lesser stat.

Bellators spreadsheet, RAWR, and redcapes spreadsheet all put this helmet very low.

When was the last time those spreadsheets were updated? Do they take into account the 30% extra melee haste paladins receive? Do they take into account the higher damage from Seal Procs as compared to pre-3.1?

Either way you're looking at 58ap and ~1% crit...I realize this will effect everything you do...but by how much does the increase in haste offset the losses?

Including 3.1 changes to haste Paladins get 2.89% haste from Unsubmissive.

@Adam: Your screenshot shows version 2.2.0 of Rawr...have you updated to the newest version (2.2.0.9) or is that the current version and the last version assignment is just not showing?

I'm not trying to flame or argue at all so I hope no one takes it as such. I just recently reached lvl 80 with my paladin and will be dual speccing Ret/Holy...so my questions are just that, questions.

I guess logically thinking 58ap and 1% crit will yield more dps in either long or short term...but I just can't help thinking that Haste may be a lot better than it seems at first glance...of course I could be dreadfully wrong.

I looked through EJ but can't find any updated info regarding Haste and how it effects SoB/M+dps...The spreadsheets probably do it for you but I'm at work and can't use tham atm

[Adamson]

It's the most up to date version. Yes it does include the most recent haste changes.

Spreadsheets and simple "at a glance" should tell you that losing 3 of more desired stats to get 1 of a lesser desired stat makes the choice very clear.

If the helmet had 10% haste on it, it would be better. But It doesn't.

[kalisala]

but I just can't help thinking that Haste may be a lot better than it seems at first glance...of course I could be dreadfully wrong.

Haste was considered a "very good" stat way back in TBC-end, while your DPS consists of near 25% white damage + around 10~15% seal damage (for a horde paladin using Seal of Blood). These are directly affected by haste, and increasing Haste ratio is effectively increasing a large portion of your DPS output.

Since we get those "Power Hitters" like Judgments, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm in WotLK, white + seal damage become less of a portion of your total DPS. Which MEANS, haste isn't effective as it was.

I think, even with its buffed SoB/SoM damage and nerfed JoB/JoM damage, haste ratio isn't going to out-shine crit. and AP in term of DPS increasing....... but as Gomexus said, I could be dreadfully wrong, too.

[Ghul]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45472#comments

this is the actual best in slot helmet, dont know what you guys are all talking about 8>

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44006

this is the nice n' kikin obsidianhelmet, well its good if you have the hitcap without it, but i myself find it hard to not rely on the hit from the spiked titansteel helmet, so for me obsidian is actually worse than the spiked titansteelhelmet, because i would drop very far under the hitcap.

[KanonGemini]

I have both these helms and was gonna try out the Helm of the unsubmissive.

I figure Haste might be nice and Stam seems to be needed lately as well.

Here is the comparison:

http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=39403;41386

Any thoughts?

You joking right?

[distantarray]

I have both these helms and was gonna try out the Helm of the unsubmissive.

I figure Haste might be nice and Stam seems to be needed lately as well.

Here is the comparison:

http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=39403;41386

Any thoughts?

HELM OF THE UNSUBMISSIVE ALL THE WAY...if you die all the time.

[Nighty]

I have both these helms and was gonna try out the Helm of the unsubmissive.

I figure Haste might be nice and Stam seems to be needed lately as well.

Here is the comparison:

http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=39403;41386

Any thoughts?

are you kidding? i really hope you are and that this is not a serious question! if it is you should really l2p
sorry man. but crit strength and hit are so much better then stamina and haste i don't even know why anyone would even think about using the second over the first ... my head will explode if i keep thinking about this ...

[Lanthal]

meh with the drop in judgment damage 4 piece isnt that great so i dropped it im sitting on 10% hit non gemmed/enchanted just waiting on my greathelm and betrayer to drop

[Adamson]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45472#comments

this is the actual best in slot helmet, dont know what you guys are all talking about 8>

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44006

this is the nice n' kikin obsidianhelmet, well its good if you have the hitcap without it, but i myself find it hard to not rely on the hit from the spiked titansteel helmet, so for me obsidian is actually worse than the spiked titansteelhelmet, because i would drop very far under the hitcap.

Incorrect, below expertise cap the obsidian greathelm remains best in slot from what bellators spreadsheet and rawr tells me.

Hit cap is so easy to manage with ulduar gear and as an alliance paladin.

Obs > warhelm