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  1. #41

    Re: Have a good Holy Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitond
    Ive never tested it out, but manaburn might not even work on bosses. I could definitely see bliz making this impossible to avoid easy kills.

    Take Freya for example 234k (10man) mana. Got it from wowwiki not sure how accurate but just to prove a point.

    6.5K a manaburn with around 25K max player mana.

    234/6 = 36 mana burns to oom Freya. Thats 72 secs of chain casting w/o hast or heroism/bloodlust. I wouldn't think they would let this slip through their radar but who knows
    perhaps they did, everyone views manaburn as a pvp skill

  2. #42

    Re: Have a good Holy Build?

    A friend just linked me this build, gonna try it on our raid on sunday.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuZbxtcfMqih0ezAo

    Even with 6 talent points renew just don't cut it, bosses hit ever 2 seconds and the damage is healed up in about 1 second, chance of that renew ticking is slim to none.

    It can proc holy concentration, but so can those flash heals you literrally spam in raids.

    I've always been a fan of Renew, but it never really did any note worthy healing, so after re-adding it in 3.1 I'm now removing it from my build, again

    I might not need Holy Focus, but where else can I put the points if I'm never gonna use renew?

  3. #43

    Re: Have a good Holy Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Dammit, I'm at work, but this challenge I cannot resist. Guess it's overtime for me today then :P

    Anyway, I seem to recall calculating this earlier, and you needed a seriously large crit for SoL to lower your DPS, because even while the SoL smite cannot crit, it is cast in less time. Let's see if we can reproduce the math.

    Basically, assume Smite does X damage and is cast over 2 seconds.
    A Smite crit will do 1.5X damage, and is cast over 2 seconds.
    A SoL-smite will do X damage, and is cast over 1.5 seconds (one GCD).

    At 100% crit, chaincasting smite will do 0.75X DPS. (1.5X damage every 2 seconds).
    Assuming you could, "Chaincasting" SoL-smite will do 0.66X DPS (1X damage every 1.5 seconds).

    As you can see, at 100% crit, you don't want to proc SoL, as that will lower your DPS. But we're not likely to get 100% crit.
    The turning point happens once you pass 66,66% crit, before that, SoL is a DPS increase, after that, SoL is a DPS decrease.
    Luckily, you're not likely to get there anytime soon, so SoL is still a sound investment.

    Edit:
    Oooh. I forgot Twin Disciplines. This makes your instant spells do 10% more damage.
    As a result, a SoL Smite will do 1.1X damage and is still cast over 1.5 seconds.
    "Chaincasting" SoL-smite will do 0.73X DPS (1.1X damage every 1.5 seconds).
    This means the crit bar is significantly raised, the turning point now happens at a whooping 93.5% crit.
    I guess you can all pick SoL with no bad conscience.
    I think your off on this Danner. From a probability perspective, every time you get a SoL proc, aren't you reducing the chance for critting?

    Like, If you have 50% crit and cast 8 smites, and two of them are SoL...it wipes the possibility for 2 to crit? Meaning only a maximum of 6 can crit. So, the higher your crit chance, the lower the probability to have higher crit ratio? And therefore, depending on how many SoL, possibly reducing your effective crit chance under 50%?

    Cause, each cast does an RNG against your crit% to see if it will crit or not. So...given 50% crit....

    CRIT(65%) SoL(51%) REG(41%) CRIT(75%) REG(23%) CRIT(65%) SoL(45%) REG(35%)

    Haven't you lost DPS with the 1st SoL because it could have been a crit? This is the probability equation I was fuzzy on. As you can see, there are only 3 effective crits when a perfect ratio would have been 4. One of those crits happened during a SoL proc, which cannot crit. Your 50% crit has turned into an effective 37.5% crit.

    Thoughts?


  4. #44

    Re: Have a good Holy Build?

    You don't have to think that complicated.

    Basically, by using a SoL smite, you will DO 1.1X damage in 1.5 seconds => 0.73X DPS.
    This smite can never crit, but that means the DPS in the time you cast the SoL smites is always predictably at 0.73X DPS.

    By doing non-SoL smite, you will do somewhere between X and 1.5X damage per smite, which means somewhere between 0.5X and 0.75X DPS, depending on your crit rate. Whenever you spend time casting a non-sol smite, you will do this amount of DPS. Assuming you have a 93.5% crit, you will do on average 0.73X DPS, which is the same as the damage you do with your SoL smite.

    Whether the SoL smite can crit or not does not really matter a lot if you think of it like that. If you start casting a SoL smite, you will do 0.73X DPS for 1.5 seconds. When you stop doing the SoL smite and do a normal smite, you will do, say, 0.6X DPS for the next two seconds. Your DPS now suddenly went down.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  5. #45

    Re: Have a good Holy Build?

    Danner, just a minor thing that might be throwing your numbers around:
    While Twin Disciplines does affect Surge of Light insta-Smites, it's still only 5%, not 10.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  6. #46

    Re: Have a good Holy Build?

    OK. I'm convinced that with straight smite spam, that SoL is a good thing. However, the rotation:

    SW,SW:P,DP,HF,Smitex4,SW,Smite, HF, Smitex4,(refresh Dots),HF (etc).....

    ...Doesn't string together like frostbolts. Would the SoL smite still factor into a rotation like this well? Or would it create a choppy rotation?

  7. #47

    Re: Have a good Holy Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritusVex
    OK. I'm convinced that with straight smite spam, that SoL is a good thing. However, the rotation:

    SW,SW:P,DP,HF,Smitex4,SW,Smite, HF, Smitex4,(refresh Dots),HF (etc).....

    ...Doesn't string together like frostbolts. Would the SoL smite still factor into a rotation like this well? Or would it create a choppy rotation?
    Rotations are bleh, more haste or a bloodlust/power infusion can screw up a rotation pretty easily.

    Priority systems are where it's at.
    Plague
    Pain
    Holy Fire + Smitex4
    Death.

    The only time it really interferes is if Death or your 4th smite crits, other than that you already have some cooldown overlap anyways, and even then I'd take the instant smite.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  8. #48

    Re: Have a good Holy Build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    Danner, just a minor thing that might be throwing your numbers around:
    While Twin Disciplines does affect Surge of Light insta-Smites, it's still only 5%, not 10.
    Ooops. I'm gonna need to doublecheck my numbers better.

    That puts the breaking point at 80% crit.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

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