1. #1

    Demonic Pact issues and concerns

    I'm running 0/56/15 and doing very well with it. However I noticed my Demonic Pact uptime was around 85% so I did some WWS checking and the most apparent reason for this was that my pet's attacks are dodged 5-7%

    I know that pets inherit the masters hit rating now, but would I need to get some expertise to fix this situation? Obviously thats not good from a design standpoint, nor would it be good to give pets the expertise needed to push dodge/parry off the table for PvP reasons.

    The best solution I can come up with is a Demonic Pact glyph that increases the duration of the buff by 8 seconds.

    Am I asking for too much here? What are your experiences and opinions Fellow Demonology Locks?

  2. #2

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    i don't think pets inherit expertise, either way stacking on exp would be silly,
    guess you just need to live with dodges and parries.

  3. #3

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    fel guards need the same hit as a 2h wielder not to sure what that is but im sure out hit cap is close.. and any melee can tell u that they miss from tiem to time.. so there isent much u can do unless ur crazy under ur hit cap

  4. #4

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    Pets dont benefit from expertise.

    My shaman's wolves' attacks are dodged 6%ish of the time as well.

  5. #5

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    Hunter's pets are the only ones with an expertise talent at the moment.

  6. #6

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    afaik is hitrating different in spell & melle
    if i remember right my ratingbuster says 0,61spellhit = 0,49meleehit

    maybe its because of that
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  7. #7

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    I'm sorry I may not have been clear enough about the issue. I am hit capped and therefore my pet is hitcapped, my WWS parses prove this. My pet however has 5-7% of its attacks dodged. I'm obviously not going to stack expertise to prevent this. But that dodge % directly reduces my Demonic Pact uptime to a level that I feel might be unacceptable.

    Im looking for ideas on how to improve DP uptime given this condition. The elitist jerks simcraft always had DP uptime of 90-94%. I can not replicate this by a significant margin.

    From further research I have also discovered that DP does not proc on every pet crit. This is actually more of a concern than the dodge issue. Has anyone else discovered a disconnect between pet crits and DP procs? There is a forum post on the EU side someone else has started that is reporting this as well.

  8. #8
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Minion Miss rate

    6% Dodge is normal. Your pet does not have expertise nor do you have a way of getting expertise without looking like a freak to 95% of the warlocks out there. Not saying its a bad idea, just saying it's odd.

    Demonic Pact - Your pets critical hits... blah blah blah
    Increase your pets crit rating by increasing yours, and your uptime will reach the 95% number you are looking for. In order to reach the "on paper" 100% uptime, you need a minimum of 20% pet crit rating, however that works out.

    R.I.P. YARG

  9. #9

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    Hey Gherkin, in raid my crit is well above the simulator value and my pet is between 18-22% crit as well. Its more apparent now that there is indeed a bug with the procs, so until it gets fixed I have to respec or live with current limitations.

    I still like the idea of a Demonic Pact glyph extending the buff duration to help push uptime closer to 100%

    Also, Im pretty sure the trade off of caster stats for expertise would result in a significant overall loss in rDPS. Im not even sure expertise transfers. If its not intended by Blizz I'm not going to bother pursuing it lol.

    Gherkin, have you had 90%+ uptime on live yet?

  10. #10
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Minion Miss rate

    We run with elemental shamans and my gear is pretty average, so we're not at that point yet.

    I just follow the math, but it seems that you're right - something is fishy. Do you have a WWS I could look at? I want to see if WWS is recording the uptime correctly or if certain attacks don't proc it, like cleave.

    The Simcraft I'm looking at has a 96% uptime and the Felguard has a crit percentage of 30.7% white hits, 28.7% cleave, with a flat miss rate of 6.5%, over 205 swings at 1.5s per swing.

    Maybe that's the problem. I was under the impression the Felguard had a 2.0s swing timer.

    R.I.P. YARG

  11. #11
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    Re: Minion Miss rate

    Forgot about a couple talents in coming up with the 1.5s number. Nevermind that, yes it seems like its not proc'ing all the time. My hunch is something on blizzards side having to do with "More powerful spell blah blah" when you get Lifetap procs.

    R.I.P. YARG

  12. #12

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    I PM'ed you Gherkin

  13. #13

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    I use power auras with a large and obvious graphic to let me know when DP procs. Yesterday in voa the proc rate seemed ridiculously low, graphic only popped up 3 times. I've done plenty of testing (on the ptr) at the heroic training dummy to perfect my rotation and DP was almost constant. Starting to wonder if something is bugged. I was actually slightly over hit cap at the time, so that wasn't the problem.

  14. #14
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Minion Miss rate

    Yeah, it appears that when you gain spell power from something, such as a totem or your lifetap glyph, and let it fall off, the Demonic Pact that is up is "A more powerful spell" and thus does not refresh.

    However, I'm at work and can't figure out what buffs are causing this, but its safe to say that anything Spirit or Spell Power related is suspect.

    A simple test? Get demonic pact to proc, click off Fel Armor, if Felguard crits but the buff doesn't refresh, we have a winner.

    R.I.P. YARG

  15. #15

    Re: Minion Miss rate

    Yes I will test this tonight before raid. I saw you made a post on the official forums, thank you for that. I dont carry my authenticator with me so I can't use those forums from work.

    I thought I had read somewhere that on the PTR that the Demonic Pact that was refreshed always kept up the highest buff achieved. i.e. If your trink procced and you got a DP proc resulting in an amount based on that trink proc, as long as your demon kept critting in the buff duration it would refresh that highest amount.

    These mechanics are going to have a pretty substantial impact on how I gear, because getting the Ulduar trinks with 850 SP procs would be in the best interest of raid DPS if the above were true.

    However Im guessing its not true and its like you said, if a higher DP is still up when the demon crits again it is not refreshed at all.

    All these variables make it very hard to answer the one question a DP specced lock wants to know, "Am I doing the right thing or would my higher personal DPS with another spec be better for us"

  16. #16
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Demonic Pact issues and concerns

    Do you run with a Elemental Shaman?

    Yes - 56/15 is useful when this individual dies a lot, or you employ tactics that spread the raid out over a wide area.
    No - 56/15 is mandatory if you raid with 2 other casters or more.

    R.I.P. YARG

  17. #17

    Re: Demonic Pact issues and concerns

    My raid does have a good Ele shaman. Its just tough to figure out if he should have ToW up for the redundancy/downtime or if he should have searing totem up.
    Im hoping after a couple weeks of running the spec and checking the parses the data will reveal a logical answer, or Blizz will come out fix any possible bugs.

    Or I will spec Destro when/if the prop it up a little more in the next trweak they have said is coming.

  18. #18
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Demonic Pact issues and concerns

    Deconstructor is a relatively straightforward fight with lots of HP.

    Attempt 1) Monitor DPS for 10 million damage, write down rDPS MINUS your dps.

    switch specs

    Attempt 2) Monitor DPS for 10 million damage, write down rDPS MINUS your dps.

    Higher wins. Do this enough times, you'll have a trend.

    R.I.P. YARG

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