Cinderglacier and Razorice not up to par with Fallencrusder still (Opinion).

[Albert the fish]

why not go get in a raid and test it out instead of theorycrafting?
with the changes to all 3 of our dps enchants we dont really KNOW anymore. someone needs to get out there with all the specs and test the shit out of this in a raid environment

[Bullshifter]

Actually, we do know. FC is better.

[Lucky_]

FC is PvE and UH/blood PvP rune.
Cinderglacier was Shadowfrost's rune.
Razorice is current Frost PvP's rune.


All of them have their uses except for lichbane. If someone is clueless enough to even think that for current PvP frost's FC is better then RI, they need to think just HOW frost gets those kills (hi Frost Strike x4).

And then consider how often that opportunity will occur at the same time as RC proc. Yeah.

[Albert the fish]

Actually, we do know. FC is better.

no, we don't. you are stupid or you stuck in pre 3.1
pre 3.1 it was FC. post 3.1 there isn't enough testing done

some people are "omg RI is better if your frost" some people are saying "no, i get better with CG" and some still stick to FC

someone, not me cause im a tank now, needs to get in a raid using nothing but FC in a frost dps spec, then the next week do it again with the same gear and RI, then with CG. then try doing FC and CG with unholy. blood dps must be FC cause RI and CG won't net anything.

until these tests are actually accomplished in a raid scenario it's just babble and dummy testing which have proven time and time again to be mediocre at best at testing various things.

[Bullshifter]

no, we don't. you are stupid or you stuck in pre 3.1

I'm neither. I would agree that possibly for other facets of the game, such as pvp (maybe), that FC might be inferior to another. But for pve dps, there's plenty of testing out there, in raid and otherwise, and it's pretty universally accepted by more informed sites and testing that FC is the best. On a more common sense note, FC hasn't changed, it's burst has been lowered, but it's uptime has doubled, which means essentially the same pve value. Why would it's value relative to the others have changed from pre-3.1 then?

[Albert the fish]

because it's not the only one that changed?

RI and CG were both changed too

[Bullshifter]

because it's not the only one that changed?

RI and CG were both changed too

You are right, RI and CG were changed, I didn't note it. Back to more research on the subject, for Frost at least. Thanks for the heads up Albert. Though still most of the testing I've seen is showing FC pulling ahead, regardless of the changes, though there are a few tests that show otherwise.

[Nyanmaru]

about 2 weeks ago, right after 3.1 hit, we did some dummy testing with a full set of raidbuffs + debuffs for about 15 minutes, 4 repeatitions, RI had an average loss of 3% dps compared to FC, CG was off by about 5%...

Can't find the actual numbers anymore, and just cba to search through all the stuff I have lying around here.

[michiko]

I was under the impression that FC was better when you have to swap mobs (because if it's procced then the moment you swap target you still get 100% benefit, RI has to apply) but RI pulled ahead on longer single target fights.

Either way, I always use RI for my tanking threat weapon so I'm stuck with it for DPS and I'm happy with it over my own experiences of FC.

[Bullshifter]

The general concensus I'm seeing over at EJ seems to agree with what Sweetcheeks is saying, though it might be a different story if RI still stacked 10 times as it appeared it was going to with the initial changes.

[kriS411]

why not go get in a raid and test it out instead of theorycrafting?
with the changes to all 3 of our dps enchants we dont really KNOW anymore. someone needs to get out there with all the specs and test the shit out of this in a raid environment

testing on target dummys != theorycrafting

[Nikkaszal]

someone, not me cause im a tank now, needs to get in a raid using nothing but FC in a frost dps spec, then the next week do it again with the same gear and RI, then with CG. then try doing FC and CG with unholy. blood dps must be FC cause RI and CG won't net anything.

until these tests are actually accomplished in a raid scenario it's just babble and dummy testing which have proven time and time again to be mediocre at best at testing various things.

Last week's Ulduar I used FC

This week I tried out RI

Next week, CG will be runed.

So far, DPS difference has been negligible, if anything.

[Albert the fish]

Last week's Ulduar I used FC

This week I tried out RI

Next week, CG will be runed.

So far, DPS difference has been negligible, if anything.

you are true Death Knight. good man. keep us updated.

[Nikkaszal]

Results for Cinderglacier for Ulduar up to Hodir are in.

I'm in love.

I know it's a gimmick fight, but Hodir was just sex in a bucket. Cracked 8k, compared to the last two weeks where I was happy to get over 6k (reminder that DPS is my offspec). Some of this is down to Frost Strike scaling with the NPC debuffs (50k FS omg) but mostly it's down to paying attention to when you have Cinderglacier up (MSBT is win for this) and using both charges on FS rather than wasting them on IT or HB.