1. #1

    combat dagger for pve questions

    Hello everyone,im looking for heavily experimented rogue players for some questions about combat daggers and a few comments on some ideas to save that spec + sub spec (for pve)

    If we watch that spec http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0xf0xZ0gVoxcxoruMxRxLb

    we can see that both SS and BS get 35% damage boost from combat but BS win a 20% bonus from sub (55%).I can see that BS now will do alot more DpE then SS but his high cost of energy and low combo generation is sadly a hurtfull counter-part...
    And the question is :Is that spec ok or there should be a solution to make that spec a choice?

    sincerly i do understand what blizzard want to do about making every spec viable for pve but they just buffed what people discovered to make good dps and not what should be cool to use...sub can do alot of dps at last but do we really like to spam evic and ONLY evic?I dont...

    Why blizzard isnt buffing like Hemo? I liked that spell for his type but today its a talent point dumping spot;they shouldv made that ability like Rake or Mangle for the feral druids!

    so here is the main question :What you guys would like to see as a new and great buffs or mechanics to make every aspec of the rogue good for pve?

  2. #2

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lade
    so here is the main question :What you guys would like to see as a new and great buffs or mechanics to make every aspec of the rogue good for pve?
    Nothing, we're alright as we are.

  3. #3

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    Only thing I'd like to see added is a viable combat dagger build, since I missed the days when it was viable because of having Thunderfury. Guess it's not going to happen ever again.

  4. #4

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    From what I think, Combat Daggers isn't really that good, that is if you've got the Talent build for it, along with Haste, Crit and Expertise, other than that it would be best to stick a Fist weapon in your main hand for the Wound Poison Proc and the +5% Crit.

  5. #5

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    combat daggers isn't nearly as bad as people seem to think, at least not once you get good gear.

    As for mechanics needing changes, the only thing that really sticks out is HaT.
    It might not be bugged anymore, but it's still completely broken, and utterly ridiculous.

    I'd really like to see sub become the BS tree, maybe change hemo to be a secondary effect on SS/BS when specced, etc.
    But relying solely on CPs coming from outside and just spamming finishers is just retarded.
    Not fun, not reliable, not balanced, poorly designed...really needs to be improved.

  6. #6

    Re: combat dagger and sub for pve

    Quote Originally Posted by Prandur
    combat daggers isn't nearly as bad as people seem to think, at least not once you get good gear.

    As for mechanics needing changes, the only thing that really sticks out is HaT.
    It might not be bugged anymore, but it's still completely broken, and utterly ridiculous.

    I'd really like to see sub become the BS tree, maybe change hemo to be a secondary effect on SS/BS when specced, etc.
    But relying solely on CPs coming from outside and just spamming finishers is just retarded.
    Not fun, not reliable, not balanced, poorly designed...really needs to be improved.
    that is a great idea and also thats exacly what im thinking about HaT!
    Here is what id like to see:

    Hemo becoming a deep wound talent like the warriors (dealing 40-50% bleeding damage equal to the critical strike with sinister strike,backstab or ghostly strike over xx secondes)and a imp hemo would be cool to increase the effect of the debuff.

    Ghostly Strike can become a AP based attack (w/e if your MH is a fist/sword/mace or a dagger) and ignore the defenciveabilities of the target (can be armor rating to even avoidence such as block,parry,dodge)

    Preparation now reset the cooldowns of AR and some other abilities.

    Honor Amongst Thief :all damage increase for each 2 party or raid members to a max of 10%.

    make some talents that boost damage and reduce energy to apply on every other attacks such as SS,GS,etc

    put on a new 51 talent ability that work for both PvE and PvP

    more ideas are popping in my head but those ones looks fine...what do you think?any ideas too?

  7. #7

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    Kologarn + Backstab = Sad Panda.

  8. #8

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuuji
    Kologarn + Backstab = Sad Panda.
    Sucks for Killing Spree too.


  9. #9

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    Even if they make combat dagger a realistic spec, no self respecting rogue would use it for raids, because you have to be behind the target to backstab.

    I play a feral druid and though I'm happy with my dps, there area a few fights in ulduar that make me a sad panda, because you either can't get behind the target or the target moves around so damn much it makes it extremely difficult to stay behind the target, thus making trying to shred the target a pointless task and I have to revert to mangle spam.

    Rogues no longer have to do this and that's a VERY good thing, I used to play combat dagger back in vanilla WoW on my rogue and even back then it had it's annoying moments.

    With the 3 different specs [mutilate spec, combat spec, hat spec] all allowing the rogues to attack from the front when they have to [and still top the damage charts], there is just no reason why blizzard would bring back a spec that REQUIRES you to be behind the target to do substantial damage, plus no rogue would spec into it in the first place, well, no intelligent rogue anyways.

  10. #10

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dokoran
    Even if they make combat dagger a realistic spec, no self respecting rogue would use it for raids, because you have to be behind the target to backstab.

    I play a feral druid and though I'm happy with my dps, there area a few fights in ulduar that make me a sad panda, because you either can't get behind the target or the target moves around so damn much it makes it extremely difficult to stay behind the target, thus making trying to shred the target a pointless task and I have to revert to mangle spam.

    Rogues no longer have to do this and that's a VERY good thing, I used to play combat dagger back in vanilla WoW on my rogue and even back then it had it's annoying moments.

    With the 3 different specs [mutilate spec, combat spec, hat spec] all allowing the rogues to attack from the front when they have to [and still top the damage charts], there is just no reason why blizzard would bring back a spec that REQUIRES you to be behind the target to do substantial damage, plus no rogue would spec into it in the first place, well, no intelligent rogue anyways.
    You sound like a key turner.

  11. #11

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    I don't see anything wrong with having to be behind the target at all. You know that "behind" just means in the relative 180 degree semicircle behind the target, right? If you're that bad then I guess you shouldn't be playing a spec that requires that. Kologarn is the only exception in Ulduar I've seen so far, so I won't even argue that since it seems like you can't get "behind" any of the targets there even from the side. I haven't done Mimiron, General Vezax, or Yogg-Saron though.

    ANYWAY, can't do Combat Daggers in WotLK until they move Relentless Strikes back to where it was pre-3.0, or otherwise change something significant. I agree that if you really, really want to play the spec you'll do "good" DPS though.

  12. #12

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    only kologarn will screw up BS.
    and why Shred do tons more damage than BS...the bleed bonus.
    Shred gives damage based on weapon+fixed damage BUT they do more damage on bleeding target...our BS dont have that bonus.

    but yea if they put that on BS,the clothy players will QQ again and we will lose it or they will nerf the damage again.

    thats why blizzard need to remake the mechanic of sub spec...

  13. #13

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lade
    only kologarn will screw up BS.
    Yep. Only Kologarn.

    How about fights like, oh i don't know, any Dragon with a tail swipe? (Sapph, Sarth, among others dating back to wow vanilla) or fights with weird mechanics and lots of mobility like Thaddeus, Kologarn, or Mimiron? There is no reason to think that there won't be more encounters that are not backstab-friendly in the future.


    My personal answer to any questions about combat daggers is and will still be -- "no."

  14. #14

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    I was only thinking about bosses in Ulduar, so Thaddius is another impossible one, yes. Mimiron I wouldn't know.. I'll see about that in a couple days hopefully. As for any dragon with a Tail Swipe, you can still easily be behind them but not all the way behind to get hit by their tail. That's a perfect example of what I mean about being "behind" a boss but really just being in the 180 degree semi-circle behind them from their center point.

    Personally I like swords more than daggers, so I'm not Combat Daggers. I'm just trying to say it's not a completely impossible build. It's just really not worth it. :/

  15. #15

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    They could just change Backstab to "stab."
    Then you can now just use Stab in any direction while facing the target.

    Don't forget, the last time Combat Daggers was really viable is when we had talent trees similar to this:
    As seen here on IGN Vault. (You guys will get a kick out of this talent calculator)

    It really puts things into perspective on how far talents have came since 1.3.0

  16. #16

    Re: combat dagger for pve questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Karr
    They could just change Backstab to "stab."
    Then you can now just use Stab in any direction while facing the target.

    Don't forget, the last time Combat Daggers was really viable is when we had talent trees similar to this:
    As seen here on IGN Vault. (You guys will get a kick out of this talent calculator)

    It really puts things into perspective on how far talents have came since 1.3.0
    31/8/12 FOR LIFE!~

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