combat 15/51/5 need advise on maximizing DPS

[marlbore]

first of all this is my current gear:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...krock&n=Biagra

I have 2 SRs (only 1 with berserking) and 2 WD's (1with berserk, 1wich accuracy)

my DPS is only around 2650 on boss dummy.

my rotation

stealth - garrote - SnD, SS to 4or5combo rupture, SS to 4,5 Snd etc etc.

I can keep up both Rupture and SnD , but never have time to Eviscerate. or only every 2minutes or so.
I use AR and KS and BF everytime its up.
I prioritize SnD over Rupture.

what am i doing wrong? ( I know i had the wrong SR on with tatium weapon chain, but chaging this to the one with berserking wont change that much)
I guess this is more of a rotation question as I am new to combat.

can anybody tell me what DPS i should be putting out with this gear on dummy?

[Swiftz]

I'm only playing mutilate, but your numbers seem close to what other people attain... Getting 3k on a dummy is very hard, rogues are one of the best scaling class with raidbuffs, your actual 25man dps should be about double what you get on dummy (as muti in almost BiS pre Ulduar gear, I pull 2.6-2.8k dps on the dummies, and 5-5.5k in 25man with 10-20% Heroism uptime and no special damage modifiers)

As long as you don't ever let SnD drop, and never let your energy cap, as long as you stay on target all the time you will do 90% of your potential dps. The last 10% comes from right use of CDs, perfect pooling/cycles etc...

If you feel your dps in raids is lacking, you probably aren't 100% on target (on mobile fights specially), and that's what you need to look into! 2650dps on dummy is fine!

[Seltheus]

first of all this is my current gear:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...krock&n=Biagra

I have 2 SRs (only 1 with berserking) and 2 WD's (1with berserk, 1wich accuracy)

my DPS is only around 2650 on boss dummy.

my rotation

stealth - garrote - SnD, SS to 4or5combo rupture, SS to 4,5 Snd etc etc.

I can keep up both Rupture and SnD , but never have time to Eviscerate. or only every 2minutes or so.
I use AR and KS and BF everytime its up.
I prioritize SnD over Rupture.

what am i doing wrong? ( I know i had the wrong SR on with tatium weapon chain, but chaging this to the one with berserking wont change that much)
I guess this is more of a rotation question as I am new to combat.

can anybody tell me what DPS i should be putting out with this gear on dummy?

Um...you're not serious about this are you? Don't want to flame for nothing...but how the hell do you suppose Combat Daggers with SS as Combo Builder is supposed to be any good...you should be happy about 2.6k Dummy DPS...because SS with a 1.8 Dagger is so much thrown away Energy for crap DMG...at least play Combat Dagger as its supposed(with Backstab as Combo Builder)
Combat Daggers still suck overall though...you've got the Weapons...spec Muti and everythings fine...

If you still want to go for Combat, then get a high DPS SLOW Fist Weapon for your MH at least and then you're good to go.

edit: I just tested my DPS on Boss Dummy. Cycle of 2 ARs with 2 BF and KS in between. Got to 3178DPS, so please...get yourself a Fist Weapon!

[Swiftz]

euhm I missed that... You are using dagger in MH?? Sinister Strike will ALWAYS favor slow MH, and CQC will push you toward a fist weapon (swordspec being by design inferior to spec into atm)...

Get a slow mainhand, everything will be the same except for a lot more SS damage and a little extra on MH poison, you should come close to 3000k dps on dummy!

[marlbore]

seltheus,

Am speccing combat, because we only have 2 rogues in our guild and both are mutilate,
and we need the Savage Combat for Raid 4% DPS boost, so I am trying to help guild more than myself.

You put together the pieces for me,
1. im supposed to use backstab for building combopoints if I have to stick with fast daggers (current)
2. am supposed to be using slow fist weapons if using SS for building combo pts, because SS benefits strictly from MH only. (future)

I dont have any slow fist weapons yet, so I will do 1. then when I get the weapons, i will do 2.

does this make sense?
because I saw the other thread on "what dps are you putting out after 3.1?" and people are rocking 3.5k on Dummy, with not much better gear(if not worse) than mine, so i was wondering.

let me go home and try backstabbing and i will report back how much dps increase i get.

[Seltheus]

See my edit above^^

That 3178DPS were made from in front of the Dummy though(parries etc)

If you're going to go for Combat Daggers(with Backstab as Combo Builder), you need to respecc towards Backstab DMG though

[marlbore]

Swiftz, thanks for your post,

yeah I need a fist weapon.
I know that endgame best weapon for rogues will be Fist weapon as they dont have lv239 Daggers.
so Combat will scale better than Mut as Ulduar progresses (at least thats my guess)

Will leave Mut for PVP and follow the Blizz trend of Combat being best Raid DPS spec for rogues.

[Nearo]

i play combat, for PvE, i have the SnD glyph and im speced for it, my rotation is garrote, snd 1 pt 5 pt rup, 1 pt snd, 5 pt rup, and you acutally find time to evisc some in there.

[Seltheus]

Actually the 2 Muti Rogues in my Guild are usually both above me in DMG meters Only by 100-200DPS max though, but still higher^^

As for 239 Daggers...lets see what Yogg Saron Hard and Algalon got in their pockets I bet at least Algalon will drop a 239 Weapon type for each spec/class

As for types of weapons...as information is atm, it doesn't really depend which spec you use(Weapon specwise), just spec for the best weapons you currently got That will get you the best possible dps

[Voij]

i play combat, for PvE, i have the SnD glyph and im speced for it, my rotation is garrote, snd 1 pt 5 pt rup, 1 pt snd, 5 pt rup, and you acutally find time to evisc some in there.

Change it to 3s/5r/5e, you'll probably see an increase in DPS.

[marlbore]

I just came back and am testing with Backstab as combo builder instaed of SS,
but Backstab only adds 1 combo point / 60 energy and I cannot even keep up rupture now.

DPS is still around 2600-2700

am I doing somethig wrong?

when you said I have to spec Combat Dagger with Backstab as combo builder, which talent point do i get?
do i move some points into Puncturing wounds? (crit change of backstab increased)

I cannot find any talent that would favor this skill other than the mentioned..

[Dalaii]

Legendary?
Nearly the best equip ingame an no idea of his class, or any melee class.

using SS with Dagger ?

it can't be true...

[marlbore]

Legendary?
Nearly the best equip ingame an no idea of his class, or any melee class.

using SS with Dagger ?

it can't be true...

dont post useless information , and read more carefully

thanks

[Voij]

I just came back and am testing with Backstab as combo builder instaed of SS,
but Backstab only adds 1 combo point / 60 energy and I cannot even keep up rupture now.

DPS is still around 2600-2700

am I doing somethig wrong?

when you said I have to spec Combat Dagger with Backstab as combo builder, which talent point do i get?
do i move some points into Puncturing wounds? (crit change of backstab increased)

I cannot find any talent that would favor this skill other than the mentioned..

Just search the Rogue Forum vor "Combat Daggers" and keep the... well... the "-thingys, don't know what they're called in English. You should find some specs there.

Problem with Combat Daggers is that you won't get as much damage out of it as you could get when using SS with a slow MH.


But as someone mentioned before, you'd do best if you'd go Mutilate, as you have the best daggers one could have Pre-Ulduar.

[Annoying]

Simply put, you don't have the gear to spec combat. If neither you nor the other rogue have good slow mainhand weapons for sinister strike, you pretty much have no choice but to both be mutilate until you get a nice fist mainhand, some swords, or even some maces. If you're really bent on going combat, run heroic CoS until Greed drops and then use greed/webbed death.

[marlbore]

Simply put, you don't have the gear to spec combat. If neither you nor the other rogue have good slow mainhand weapons for sinister strike, you pretty much have no choice but to both be mutilate until you get a nice fist mainhand, some swords, or even some maces. If you're really bent on going combat, run heroic CoS until Greed drops and then use greed/webbed death.

thanks for your comment.
I thought there was something missing from my rotation.
I will try and use both SS and Backstab situational for now, and wait till i get that 239 first to drop from uld.

[Deleted]

dunno people how are you playing, but after reading EJ guide and rotations 3300 i am doing as muti and 3325 as combat through 10 min fights on a dummies..i have 290 hit and 25 exp as combat and 15 exp as muti..this was boss dummy, for sure =))

3s/5r/4-5e is nice rotation..

[GAfo]

You are using a cookie cutter spec and rotation for Fist/dagger, Maces, Swords with dual dagger...
So yes, you dont have the gear for it, you are making a wrong rotation and you have a wrong spec.
You can achieve much more dps with a combat dagger build and the same gear.

PS: The mut rogues in your guild should spec combat instead of you, cause either you are a god playing with a wrong spec and wrong rotation and staying only 100-200 dps below them, or simply they are not able to play thus the ones that should respec for the good of the guild.

PPS: also check the DPS difference between you as combat and you as mutilate, i think you'll find out that you are loosing more dps then the one you give to the raid with savage combat.

[ulyssesric]

thanks for your comment.
I thought there was something missing from my rotation.
I will try and use both SS and Backstab situational for now, and wait till i get that 239 first to drop from uld.

marlbore, did you really know where your problem is ?

Abilities such as Sinister Strike which says "deal weapon damage...", the "weapon damage" here refereed to the "base weapon damage", which is normalized to the speed according to the weapon type.

The weapon damage for a single auto-attack is (min-damage ~ max-damage) + AP /14 * weapon-speed
But the base weapon damage for ability is (min-damage ~ max-damage) + AP /14 * normalized-weapon-speed

This normalized-weapon-speed is 1.7 for dagger and 2.4 for other one-hand weapons.

Supposed that you're holding a DPS 171, 1.6 speed sword in your MH, and your AP is 4500,
You're base weapon damage is around 171*1.6 + 4500/14*2.4 = 1045.
If you changed your MH weapon to a DPS 171, 1.6 speed dagger,
and now your base weapon damage will be 171*1.6 + 4500/14*1.7 = 820.

In other word, you lose about 25% damage from Sinister Strike with incorrect weapon in the MH.

If dagger is the only weapon you have, you should go Mutilate.
If you must go combat with dagger, and you'll need a different spec like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...0&version=9806

(Keep Imp SS just in case for trash mobs and some fights like Thaddius.)

I've no idea how the rotation would be with this spec.
Back to the days of vanilla WoW when combat dagger is top of DPS, all combo points are consumed by SnD.
And I never went back to combat dagger since TBC.

[Phattopia]

Hey there. Interesting read, and made me think that the backstab glyph adds uptime to your rupture. Maybe consider testing that out if your having problems keeping rupture up using combat daggers. Might help some.