A question concerning DPS

[Spoogles]

Hey pplz I have been playing a rogue for a little while now ;D and have got all the best gear to basically step into Ulduar (its all 7.5 equivalent) I am Hunger for blood specc and know my rotations with my eyes closed....

My problem is, I am seeing a lot of people on here reporting rather high DPS numbers whilst I am sitting around the 4.8k-5.6k in 25mans o.0 (end of boss fight results).

Its kind of frustrating me I have multiple spreadsheets which all tell me I SHOULD be doing around the 6.5k'ish, I have only been able to break it down to a lack of raid control in buffs? I am really really really focusing on my rotations to the point of not giving a damn whats around me (risking my life for dps :S) I generally come 3rd-1st in the damage done.

Could it be an outside source that is hurting my dps? (Lag ? I have no idea really) I am not sure but it is really really frustrating, its never happened in patches/expansions before, I use to always be within 10-50dps (at the end of the fight) of my spreadsheets.

I am really really stumped on this :S anyone with any 'kind' words ? :-\

P.S. When I respec into combat ( I have optimal gear for that too, I am like the only real raiding rogue in the guild so I guess I am lucky with my gear) but I still get the same numbers in the end, around the 4.8k-5.6kmark :-\....

[Voij]

Hey pplz I have been playing a rogue for a little while now ;D and have got all the best gear to basically step into Ulduar (its all 7.5 equivalent) I am Hunger for blood specc and know my rotations with my eyes closed....

My problem is, I am seeing a lot of people on here reporting rather high DPS numbers whilst I am sitting around the 4.8k-5.6k in 25mans o.0 (end of boss fight results).

Its kind of frustrating me I have multiple spreadsheets which all tell me I SHOULD be doing around the 6.5k'ish, I have only been able to break it down to a lack of raid control in buffs? I am really really really focusing on my rotations to the point of not giving a damn whats around me (risking my life for dps :S) I generally come 3rd-1st in the damage done.

Could it be an outside source that is hurting my dps? (Lag ? I have no idea really) I am not sure but it is really really frustrating, its never happened in patches/expansions before, I use to always be within 10-50dps (at the end of the fight) of my spreadsheets.

I am really really stumped on this :S anyone with any 'kind' words ? :-\

Check Buffs/Debuffs, check whether Murder is active in your spreadsheet but not during your fights, check fight lengthes. Also check how the fights are designed, the spreadsheet states that you have an uptime of 100% and tells you your highest possible dps according to that.

[Swiftz]

I don't think you have a problem, I think you need to be careful with theorical dps output and the conditions under which the dps you can see on various wowwebstats happend.

Ulduar isn't very tank n spank, I am HfB with Naxx BiS mostly, I find myself around 6k dps on pure nuke situations. I had 5.5k on our first Ignis kill with almost no mistake, on a patchwerk-like fight I guess it would be 6k.

I would advise getting WWS if noone from your guild is already posting the parses, because there you can see what happends (and ask for people review much easier). We get benefit from almost every raidbuffs,RaidComp:

- 20% + 5% armor reduction
- 20% melee haste + 3% haste
- 10% attack power
- 3% + 4% all damage
- 5% melee crit
- 5% spell crit
- 3% crit
- 13% spell damage
- 3% spell hit
- 30% bleed damage

It is possible to track all those in combat, but the best is to look at WWS (or equivalent) reports, because if you are doing it right your dps also suffers a lot from your raid members mistakes.

And don't get lured by people reporting 8k on XT-002, and other such Thaddius-like fights where you get massive damage buffs, those numbers are mostly down to a good execution of the fight, you can be as good as you want, if your raid is bad and needs 3x more time between heart phases on XT-002, or if they can't stack the damn flares in EoE, you won't get anywhere near very good guilds numbers, even with excellent individual performance. Same if you kill Patch in 4:30 or in 1:30, one has 50% Bloodlust uptime, the other 15%!

[Spoogles]

I totally undestand the uptime on a boss (which I go to all extents to do I mean raw melee damage is still our strongest form of damage output? followed by mutilate etc wat evar) and the buffs for myself they are well ....optimal :S

I havent really got a full on accurate example to give you.... YET.

I pull 3.3k-3.5k on the heroic target dummies.... which seems to be in tandem with other reports on here (but hey the dummie is like OPTIMAL situation LOL).

I just really think its something else.... a 2k dps gap(come on).... that aint down to a buff missing that is something else seriously wrong in my eyes (its not gemming its not chanting, you cannot gem to gain 2kdps........ everything is optimal that I have and generally perform.

[Swiftz]

I pull 3.3k-3.5k on the heroic target dummies.... which seems to be in tandem with other reports on here (but hey the dummie is like OPTIMAL situation LOL).

2k dps? are you talking about the difference between dummy and effective raid dps? I don't get it... Spreadsheet assumes all raid buffs and debuffs, do you have that on that poor dummy?

[Spoogles]

2k dps? are you talking about the difference between dummy and effective raid dps? I don't get it... Spreadsheet assumes all raid buffs and debuffs, do you have that on that poor dummy?

No no no no.... I am very satisfied with my heroic target dummie DPS being the same as basically many other rogue reports.

What I was trying to say is that my dps in 25mans (4.8-5.6k) is like a 2k gap from the reports I am seeing from other raiding rogues.

[Geckomayhem]

I was about to say what he just responded with. >.< Made sense to me.

Don't worry so much. If you are definitely receiving all of the benefits of being in a fully buffed raid with people doing their utmost best as well, just listen to what other people have said. The fights in Ulduar are far from static. You can't hope to meet optimal conditions, regardless of how perfect the execution of all of your moves and cooldowns is. So long as you are pushing out all that you can, forget about the end result of expected DPS that a spreadsheet dictates.

As people have said: if you are that worried, output to WWS and see if you spot anything out of the ordinary that indicates where your DPS is "suffering".

[Spoogles]

From what I can tell it is something raid or buff related that is not personaly ME or within my own control, cause if I can do optimal DPS on the heroic target dummie (I know I know it is vary rarely a situation on a boss in a raid where you literally get to sit and do dps, well in ulduar anyway).

But to do SOOOO much worse DPS then others are reporting its just painful, I am at the point where everything I am gaining is either +1dps or in the 0.???dps gain (which is sad...) like subbing in X item for Y item in the spreadsheets its all soo very minor, EVERYTHING.

I mean I am still top 3 always on boss fights.

4Gaiwyn - Damn straight I will have to talk with the druid and make some form of constant reporting cause this shits just too annoying for me, I seriously am playing as optimal as I can tho.... to the point of suicide :S

Yet why such the large difference in numbers I mean if it were less then a K difference I prolly wouldnt really bother and put it down to the spreadsheets differences.

But this is a lot of missing DPS and I cannot do anything really better tbh :S (in terms of actual FIGHT style, rotations, uptime buff's) its just such a major gap imo :S very very frustrating, constantly questioning myself "WTF AM I DOING WRONG!!!!!?!?QQ?!?!?

P.S. Elitist jerks there spreadsheets and every other piece of rogue related information is at the tip of my fingers, I read them like a god damn Novel! and thats probably why I get so frustrated ROFL.... my own doing.

[GAfo]

On wich boss you make that dps? The only "real" test you can have is ignis, and still it's not a 100% uptime fight.
2k dps are easy to loose when you have to interrupt your rotation more then once.

[Soulblaze]

You shouldn't only check for all buffs important to you, but also -> are all necessary debuffs applied to the boss? (There's even addons out there to do these checks.)

Don't fret so much, theoretical DPS isn't the end all be all, most of the time you won't achieve it anyway because theory is static and fights are a lot more dynamic and below the optimal.

I can, from my own raiding experience (and not even as a damage dealer, but even as a healer you have to get how the fight works ; )), only talk about Ignis, XT and Razorscale, and especially the two latter are not exactly fights with much uptime. I suspect there's more bosses like that in Ulduar.

And as for people reporting seemingly insane DPS... keep in mind that some people aren't really truthful about their DPS because they like to make themselves better, and virtually no one can check if they're lying or not (unless you happen to be on the same server and somehow get to raid with them). Some of them haven't even tried a boss, they just read their theoretical DPS should be this and that, and so they go on and say they're doing DPS around that number. Be careful there. : )

[Eschbach]

I'm with you Spoogles - sometimes I wonder where people are getting their numbers from. Take these anonomous reports with a grain of salt. Most are quite blown out of proportion and far from the truth. If you are sure you are doing everything right, then just keep up the good work.

[Shadii]

I'm Mut and I'm in the same situation as you dps wise. I too have pretty much all BIS and those 2 pieces are only minimal upgrades. You NEED to remember that Ulduar is not Mut friendly, theres a lot of moving around especially in later bosses. In XT I am hitting 5.5k the most, while the other rogue who is combat can get to 7.2k. I know I am not doing anything majorly wrong because I have done 5.3k dps on Patchwork before 3.1 on a 3 minute fight. I know what I am doing and have the correct spec. What combat has over us is the use of CD's and they take advatange during the heart phase. Up to Mirmiron, there is not one fight that is like Patchwork, all require you to move from boss and most likely drop your SnD, Rupture, and HfB. Right there, it requires me to lose massive amount of energy to get back to where I was, all this interruption in rotation cause a huge dps loss. Spreadsheet, like other people have mentioned is UNDER IDEAL CONDITIONS ei Patchwork, NOT any boss in Ulduar. So forget ever doing that much damage on a boss fight that does not give you major buffs. I believe your doing your OPTIMAL(I've noticed you like that word LOL) dps based on the conditions. As soon as I get a good MH, I'm going combat, even though I DO NOT want to, it is what is doing the most dps and will continue to do so based on fight mechanics. Yes, I'm pissed. Fuck combat, SS spam FTL. You know how many rogues I've talked to that were combat before 3.1 because they thought Mut was too hard? Alot. But I'm going were the most dps is at and hopefully that changes back to Mut with some buffs or nerfs to combat.

[Voij]

I'm Mut and I'm in the same situation as you dps wise. I too have pretty much all BIS and those 2 pieces are only minimal upgrades. You NEED to remember that Ulduar is not Mut friendly, theres a lot of moving around especially in later bosses. In XT I am hitting 5.5k the most, while the other rogue who is combat can get to 7.2k. I know I am not doing anything majorly wrong because I have done 5.3k dps on Patchwork before 3.1 on a 3 minute fight. I know what I am doing and have the correct spec. What combat has over us is the use of CD's and they take advatange during the heart phase. Up to Mirmiron, there is not one fight that is like Patchwork, all require you to move from boss and most likely drop your SnD, Rupture, and HfB. Right there, it requires me to lose massive amount of energy to get back to where I was, all this interruption in rotation cause a huge dps loss. Spreadsheet, like other people have mentioned is UNDER IDEAL CONDITIONS ei Patchwork, NOT any boss in Ulduar. So forget ever doing that much damage on a boss fight that does not give you major buffs. I believe your doing your OPTIMAL(I've noticed you like that word LOL) dps based on the conditions. As soon as I get a good MH, I'm going combat, even though I DO NOT want to, it is what is doing the most dps and will continue to do so based on fight mechanics. Yes, I'm pissed. Fuck combat, SS spam FTL. You know how many rogues I've talked to that were combat before 3.1 because they thought Mut was too hard? Alot. But I'm going were the most dps is at and hopefully that changes back to Mut with some buffs or nerfs to combat.

You didn't mention it and your dps is kinda low, so I'm just gonna ask: Did you use a slow dagger in your MH?
5,5k at XT is just kinda low in my eyes, even as HfB.