*twitch*

[Ranor]

We'd like to make a change where Innervate always restrores about the same total mana (say 15,000 at level 80). That's good for PvP but not overpowered for PvE, and has the added bonus of being more useful to non-Spirit based casters as well. "Innervating the hunter!"

W.. what is this.. I don't even..

They just.. ugh.. What have they done.

[Dendrek]

They said they are considering it. But God, I would hate them if they actually do it.

[Powell]

lifebloom cost up, innervate nerf, replenish nerf, in combat regen nerf....

but tbh, i kinda like it, innervate was only usefull on priests or resto druids, not for feral/boomkin, or paladins/hunter/mage/warlock etc.
it was to based on spirit, wich almost all classes lack or dont need
ofc mages got a spirit boost, but its still not sufficient

the only down side ofc is the nerf for resto druids, theyv been taking alot of beating by the nerfbat lately

[Dendrek]

If they do this, Innervate will not scale with gear at all. It will be too powerful for undergeared druids (with 15k mana pools) and extremely weak for heavily geared druids (with 25k mana pools) and get weaker with each tier level.

[Gzilia]

If they do this, Innervate will not scale with gear at all. It will be too powerful for undergeared druids (with 15k mana pools) and extremely weak for heavily geared druids (with 25k mana pools) and get weaker with each tier level.

Yup and to make maters worse, they actualy pointed out..

Inervate.. the.. hunter.. ?

[Snowf0x]

this is a direct pvp buff, with my current pvp gear i get around 30% of my total mana back from a full innervate... seriously ??

and if you have a 25k manapool + innervate 15k you will be having around 40k mana you can use right off the bat. pve was already way too easy, if they change innervate to give you your whole manapool of 25k back, what's the point of having a manapool at all since it never runs out ?

[getefix]

Innervate for feralz will be useful again!!

[Dendrek]

You're completely missing the point, Snowf0x. This proposed change would destroy Innervate's scaling in PvE. (I also suspect this would be the last nail in the coffin of our once beloved Spirit, as Int and mp5 would almost certainly be better for mana regen.) Nearly all mana regen mechanics in the game scale with gear (with the exception of a few "proc on cast" abilities). It doesn't make much sense for them not to.

I agree that things are bad in PvP right now and I'm not opposed to making changes to benefit PvP, but this is just as huge a PvE nerf as it is a PvP buff. There are more ways to fix druid scaling in PvP than by further nerfing PvE.

PvE is not "too easy" right now. It's not overwhelmingly difficult, but then again it shouldn't be overwhelmingly difficult. Mana regen is about where it should be: we can cast pretty regularly but if we're not careful about our casts we can easily go OOM. Further nerfing PvE is uneccessary, as is hindering druid scaling in PvE.

[Volkogluk]

I would really like an armory link to a resto druid with mana pool of 25k.
P.S.: Best solution would be if innervate was changed to something like mages evocation: a set percent of targets mana restored w/o anything to do with targets spirit. I really doubt Blizz would make Innervate restore a fixed 15k mana. That would fly in the face of everything they done recently with mana regen of healing classes.

[Dendrek]

If they do this, Innervate will not scale with gear at all. It will be too powerful for undergeared druids (with 15k mana pools) and extremely weak for heavily geared druids (with 25k mana pools) and get weaker with each tier level.

I was suggesting a case that we might see with better Ulduar gear (and exaggerating in both extremes) to make a point.

[Snowf0x]

You're completely missing the point, Snowf0x. This proposed change would destroy Innervate's scaling in PvE. (I also suspect this would be the last nail in the coffin of our once beloved Spirit, as Int and mp5 would almost certainly be better for mana regen.) Nearly all mana regen mechanics in the game scale with gear (with the exception of a few "proc on cast" abilities). It doesn't make much sense for them not to.

I agree that things are bad in PvP right now and I'm not opposed to making changes to benefit PvP, but this is just as huge a PvE nerf as it is a PvP buff. There are more ways to fix druid scaling in PvP than by further nerfing PvE.

PvE is not "too easy" right now. It's not overwhelmingly difficult, but then again it shouldn't be overwhelmingly difficult. Mana regen is about where it should be: we can cast pretty regularly but if we're not careful about our casts we can easily go OOM. Further nerfing PvE is uneccessary, as is hindering druid scaling in PvE.

you do realise that combat manaregen was unaffected by the regen nerf, and personally i didn't run oom in ANY of the WoTLK raids with or without innervate, you get plenty of regen abilities from your raidmembers. and even if the innervate change nerfs PVE healing people will just adapt and keep on playing. it's not like it will destroy resto druid healing in pve, not by a longshot

[baseball]

I highly doubt they'd change it to be a static amount of mana, for exactly the reasons people here are worried about (15k mana on a level 80 with quest blues is AWESOME, and 15k mana on a full T8.5 mage is negligible).

But if they made it more like divine plea or evocation (say, 75% of your maximum mana over 6 seconds), it'd be fine, and it'd scale with all classes. Imagine tossing that bad boy on an arcane mage durring heroism.

[Snowf0x]

I highly doubt they'd change it to be a static amount of mana, for exactly the reasons people here are worried about (15k mana on a level 80 with quest blues is AWESOME, and 15k mana on a full T8.5 mage is negligible).

But if they made it more like divine plea or evocation (say, 75% of your maximum mana over 6 seconds), it'd be fine, and it'd scale with all classes. Imagine tossing that bad boy on an arcane mage durring heroism.

undergeared druids need the buff, feral / moonkin needs the buff, pvp resto needs the buff, for pve resto a minor nerf ( considering as a fully geared resto you shouldn't run oom in the first place, since combat regen remained the same )

i don't see any good reasons why the buff shouldn't turn it into a static amount

[Shankd]

Ima have to agree with snow on this, this really inst designed to be a resto druid nerf (this coming from a resto druid who had 1600+ ooc regen, raid buffed pre nerfed, which would of equaled a 25.6k innervate in terms of mana). Most resto druids dont have a 25k mana pool, most average around 17-18k, so 15000 mana back innervate would give back over 80% of thier mana, granted a good resto druid shouldnt oom in the first place. So in any terms this is a BUFF to innervate, 2/3 specs would benefit from the changes, and resto druid imo wouldnt be affected very much if at all.

[baseball]

this is a *proposed* change. Nothing's happening yet.

A set amount means Blizzard will need to institute ranks of the ability, lest you see level 40s being able to get 15k mana.

That's why I'm betting on them conforming the ability to a percentage of max mana, like divine plea, evocate, and replenishment. It just scales more intelligently that way.

[getefix]

this will be a nerf for priests who rely on it, however. I see a lot of priest stacking +int and ending up with enormous mana pools. in content patches to come innervate will be less and less useful to them.

[camy011]

How about it does which ever is greater. If you will get more mana back from the current mechanic it uses that, if you don't, you get 15k mana back.

But if they made it more like divine plea or evocation (say, 75% of your maximum mana over 6 seconds), it'd be fine, and it'd scale with all classes. Imagine tossing that bad boy on an arcane mage durring heroism.

This would work. Might lead to stacking int tho =]
Inneravte glyph would bump it up to 90% mana returned.

[silvytreehug]

personally i didn't run oom in ANY of the WoTLK raids with or without innervate, you get plenty of regen abilities from your raidmembers

wanna know what that says to me?

you werent using your mana well enough and other healers were carrying you.

Druid heals are the most powerful in the game by far, and i dont mean simply 'raid heals' 'tank heals' or even 'pvp heals'.

You should find where the /oom line is, then take one step back. Thats how you give it your best.

[baseball]

that's not really fair. If his other healers aren't running oom either, then he's not being carried, they're just overstacking the healers. Lots of raids overestimate the healer requirements they need.

[Dendrek]

Though it is possible to avoid going OOM as a druid, a druid who's given a challenging assignment will probably not finish every fight in Ulduar without having used Innervate. If you've never used your Innervate in Ulduar, then I suspect you either have too many healers, you're not healing to your full potential, or you probably haven't seen some of the harder/longer fights in Ulduar yet. I really don't believe it's possible to be an active and effective healer and never have to use Innervate on one's self.