Elemental Shaman (not QQ or bug fix)

[cyloria]

First off i ask people to please refrain from bringing up the bug in this thread yes i am effected by it to but this thread is to help us in the near future..

This thread is for proof to mention our real problems how i see it Scaling is our biggest problem (as it has been for as long as i have been a shaman) Now here are the scaling factors. First thing to do is take a look at the stats that you can draw dps from: Int, Dmg, Crit, Haste (Don't pay attention to +hit - its very misleading if you don't know the underlying mechanics for these.. and compare those to Affliction Locks and FFB Mages. You'll see that we are deriving less dps per point on EVERY one of those stats.

Mages and Locks both get an extra statistic to derive even more dps from = spirit. And its no joke. they both derive a hefty amount of dps from spirit. we have nothing to make up for that and and we don't scale as well with the core stats are other casters do. Its a recipe for horrid scaling is what it is: Giving us a percentage of our intell into spell power ..would make a big dent in that..

Also our TOW our signature is very limited Locks can give what we can at Current BIS T7 in T8 it will be even worse so what about making it start at 280 (to not lessen it for the non raiders or lesser progressed) plus 3or5 percent of the casters spell damage...more scaling (oh how i dream of scaling


anyone studying this will see our scaling is terrible and WILL hold us back and it will only get worse as we get more gear and so do others

Pay close attention to heading called DPS SCALE FACTORS (DPS per Unit Stat)

http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...SampleOutputT7

i know its not something Blizz usually does looks at us high breds ahead of time and fixes the problem before half of us quit and change mains...but i have stuck with Elementals through all of bc and now through LK...in BC it wasn't as important but now with all the hard modes...we will be left out even if we are spectacular players...

i would also like to see a more dynamic spell rotation where if your good and are observant your dps will increase(insant cast CL or LB or even lava would be amazing)...although i know since we are so bursty that could have pvp implications...the best thing that could happen is reworking the spells so that we don't burst as hard kinda like they reworked ret...Ret still does amazing DPS and lost some burst...yet they are still what i consider a burst class..so to all the people that say don't nerf our burst...toning it a bit for better over all dps would be good and we could still be a burst class....or else maybe a lava burst at half damage instant cast ..

Like i said in the beginning please keep this thread for constructive stuff less QQ the better and no bug stuff(yes the bug is completly awful) there is plenty of threads about that...also this is not an us against Pures thread..yes in my opinion they should do a bit more dps than us but what we are going to see is more than a bit and going to leave us out of the fun stuff and the stuff that alot of us are fully capable of and looking forward to "hard modes"i am adding this to Damage Dealing Shaman and MMO...i hope i get some good intelligent responses...Much love to all my fellow shamans

[False God]

Iv accepted the fact that I might as well just be called "BloodLust" when I go to raid. Im there for my totems and the back up DI / Soulstone mechanic. It's a cruel world but hey I get alot of resto gear

[rabbimojo]

Couple points:

-You rarely get to pick up spirit without paying another stat. IE, spirit vs. crit, or spirit vs. haste. It is a nice benefit from raid buffs and the like, but don't over-estimate how much it really means. In Icecrown, and maybe hard mode gear, this may be an issue as we start to see better-itemized stuff.

-ToW vs. DPact is sort of a weird discussion. With ToW, it's up 100% of the time. DPact estimates are currently 90%ish, depending on buffs and gearing choices. What this means is that a lock needs over 3.1k SP to average out to being identically powerful, and even there suffers a qualitative loss in some senses. That is, if someone puts a lasting spell up with higher SP, and then tries to cast it again while DPact happens to have dropped off, it usually won't overwrite. Maybe that's good, maybe it isn't. It's a difference though, and not a simple one.

-Ulduar is very rough on pets. If you're not paying close attention, that DPact provider can die.

-It's also not always possible to have your pet attacking a good or safe target. Example, Mimiron's head phase. DPact downtime is very bad here.

In any case, yes, Ele Shaman do have troubles in scaling, but is your actual damage low? Will it be low at the end of ulduar? That's what Blizz is looking at, and is the real question. Without that considered, your argument boils down to "Our mechanics are weak. Make us better because we want to be buffed." rather than actually making an appeal to equality or raid inclusiveness issues.

[Sarevokcz]

Couple points:

-You rarely get to pick up spirit without paying another stat. IE, spirit vs. crit, or spirit vs. haste. It is a nice benefit from raid buffs and the like, but don't over-estimate how much it really means. In Icecrown, and maybe hard mode gear, this may be an issue as we start to see better-itemized stuff.

In any case, yes, Ele Shaman do have troubles in scaling, but is your actual damage low? Will it be low at the end of ulduar? That's what Blizz is looking at, and is the real question. Without that considered, your argument boils down to "Our mechanics are weak. Make us better because we want to be buffed." rather than actually making an appeal to equality or raid inclusiveness issues.

yes, Eleshaman damage is in the low end, even without Lava bug, and considering the fact, that eleshaman gear already IS perfectly itemized (SP + 2 out of crit/haste/hit), without any gimmick stats like mp5 and the fact,t hat clothies and moonkins are easily outdpsing us by quite alot with their "not the best itemized gear", there is serious problem in the future, beause, as opposed to them, we already cant have better itemized gear, simply because we dont have secondary stat to increase our dps, all we have is int, SP, crit, hit, haste, whereas all other casters have also spirit.

also, Eleshaman are knows for a spec, where their scalling from crit, SP and haste is lowest or one of the lowest across all caster specs, too

definately +SP or +haste based on %int would help, it could be incorporated into flametongue, much like mages got their molten armor revisited to get dps benefit from spirit. other than that, dunno about any way to boost our damage close to moonkin levels without pvp rant, that eleshaman can pull out 10k crit Lavabursts into full resi target and similar nonsence.

i had an idea, based on hot streak mechanis, basically 2 crits of non LvB spells in a row would reset CD on LvB, it would make rotation more dynamic, it wouldnt really be "OP" in pve (its not like we would get double ammount of LvB) nor pvp (tons of resi to be lucky to get 2 crits in a row with 15% crit) and it would be something "new" for elemental shaman, it could increase our benefit form crit (which is seriously low atm, even after the EO buff) and most likely made us with actual options in glyphs, bcs both Lava and Flametognue would became more on par with curent top3