Crippling

[Vennom]

you shithead, he is refering to ALL classes, 70% IS to much with the uptime at the cost of no gcd, its just lame, pull it down to 50% like all the other damn classes in this game has

So in your opinion nerfing crippling poison to 50% will actually let some classes survive our onslaught?

Have rogues become so....trivial? Are we not seen as a threat anymore?

What happened to the "QQ Dismantle" "QQ Stuns" "QQ Burst" "QQ Cloak" "QQ Shadow step"...etc..etc.

Has it really come down one poison as the "Be all End all" of Rogues? Trust me there are WAY more important things that you could asked to be nerfed besides Crippling Poison.

[Cyrant]

I'm not going to shout nerf but crip poison actually is a huge hassle versus rogue/disc in the arena. Trying to keep up with the priest is a bit of a pain, even with hamstring + 12s charge, simply due to the priest still moving 15-20% faster than me even with hamstring up on him. I generally have to hope for good hamstring root procs.

Not going to cry about it though. Does seem odd that poison is 70% however considering blizzards joy of normalization and all. You'd figure that if they normalized all the cast speed slowing effects they would do the same for snares.


Thats just the way I see it anyways.

Have rogues become so....trivial? Are we not seen as a threat anymore?

What happened to the "QQ Dismantle" "QQ Stuns" "QQ Burst" "QQ Cloak" "QQ Shadow step"...etc..etc.

Has it really come down one poison as the "Be all End all" of Rogues? Trust me there are WAY more important things that you could asked to be nerfed besides Crippling Poison.

I think it's more of just because crippling seems unfair due to normalization blizzard likes to do. Every class has these other things you are talking about, for the most part, in one way or another. Dismantle is 10 seconds, disarm is 10 seconds. Stun durations are the same as what ferals can do (IIRC). The burst is obviously handled by a lot of classes. Cloak is pretty unique to rogues but then again no class has something like it. Shadowstep is about the same thing (I know, diferences, I played a rogue @ 70 in TBC) as charge/feral charge/ect.).

The difference is that it seems odd that a snare (which is easier to put on) is better than other snares which classes spend GCD/rage/mana on. Of course one could also make the argument that a DK's chains of ice is better which might be true, and I actually had forgotten that until just now.


That being said I'm just guessing at the reason why someone would complain. I'm not going to say crippling poison is OP (yeah, it's annoying but I don't think I'd nerf it) but just explaining the thought process others may go through.

[Vennom]

I'm not going to shout nerf but crip poison actually is a huge hassle versus rogue/disc in the arena. Trying to keep up with the priest is a bit of a pain, even with hamstring + 12s charge, simply due to the priest still moving 15-20% faster than me even with hamstring up on him. I generally have to hope for good hamstring root procs.

Not going to cry about it though. Does seem odd that poison is 70% however considering blizzards joy of normalization and all. You'd figure that if they normalized all the cast speed slowing effects they would do the same for snares.


Thats just the way I see it anyways.

I think it's more of just because crippling seems unfair due to normalization blizzard likes to do. Every class has these other things you are talking about, for the most part, in one way or another. Dismantle is 10 seconds, disarm is 10 seconds. Stun durations are the same as what ferals can do (IIRC). The burst is obviously handled by a lot of classes. Cloak is pretty unique to rogues but then again no class has something like it. Shadowstep is about the same thing (I know, diferences, I played a rogue @ 70 in TBC) as charge/feral charge/ect.).

The difference is that it seems odd that a snare (which is easier to put on) is better than other snares which classes spend GCD/rage/mana on. Of course one could also make the argument that a DK's chains of ice is better which might be true, and I actually had forgotten that until just now.


That being said I'm just guessing at the reason why someone would complain. I'm not going to say crippling poison is OP (yeah, it's annoying but I don't think I'd nerf it) but just explaining the thought process others may go through.

1. What is your partner doing this whole time?

Pally - hand of freedom/cleanse
druid - abolish poison
Shaman - Cleanse/totem

Not to mention that if you want the priest to come to you, just turn around and smack the crap out of the rogue hehe, the priest will stop running, guarnteed.

I do not know what set up you run, but unless it is 2 dps (which in that case you should be on the rogue and trying to somehow cc his priest) there has to be a way around it.

2. I'll accept normalization of movement reducing effects, when blizzard normalizes the damage rogues do against shields that damage the attacker.

Ever faced a prot pally with shield spike, ret aura, and thorns......I die during MY OWN kidney.....

[Soltari]

You have a 90% chance to always

lolwut?

[Cyrant]

2. I'll accept normalization of movement reducing effects, when blizzard normalizes the damage rogues do against shields that damage the attacker.

I'm pretty sure blizzard is actually doing this, or they want to. Read a blue post a few days ago about it.

[amk]

if they give us shadowstep trainable i agree.....remember that all melee classes have catchup moves,,,, charge,DG ,ferals have charge ...

All melee? Rets are still waiting for theirs.....

[Phyta]

look at the arena representation, 25% priests 25% rogues, - zomg, no shit?

How was Druid / Warr s4 any different % wise? At one time they were 50% of the teams in arean. Last season Pally / DK?..again, that was almost 50% of the teams. There will always be a top 2s comp that depends on the current patches and skill + talent makeup that blizzard allows. This season, its rogue / priest. Next season it wont be, get over it and learn to stay in Battle Stance, Overpower and to keep rend up.

I play a rogue.

[Deleted]

i still faceroll them as warrior without any effort so stop the qq and l2p^^

[Jimec]

All melee? Rets are still waiting for theirs.....

He said melee classes.. not melee specs..

[tokes]

This is coming from a rogue that has played all 5 seasons, and is taking a breather for season 6.

Not counting the Season 3 and 4 days where an MS warrior with rng would rip my face off while overpowering me through my dodge....i might be inclined to agree with you.....

HOWEVER, i don't and i will explain why

1. "in my opinion, the only reason why rogues are so powerfull in arena is Crippling poison"
I'm glad your opinion doesnt count because that is dead on wrong. We are powerful in arenas due to our utilities and knowing when to use our cooldowns. WoW was never balanced about 1v1, so if this is a "QQ i got bleed kited" then you need to get over it. We have evasion, dismantle, sprint, stuns, prep, shadowstep, etc etc. Against a healer/dps set up, i am forced to add shiv in my rotation (which uses energy) because a good healer is usually spamming the crap out of his cleanse button.

2. 99% of rogues are not mutilate. I do not know the exact percentage but there are many shadowstep hybrids/shadow dance/ Combat/pre rogues out there.

3. If you have ever taken a look at a rogues tree specs or abilities, you will realize that we do not have any "Reduction to dispell mechanics" abilities. Which means, if there is crippling on you, and you cleanse it, it comes off. So blizzard added "deadly brew" so they wound and mindnumbing poison can "protect" crippling, or vice versa.

4 Yes, crippling poison does reduce movement speed by 70% and it can also be cleansed and dispelled by almost all healers. A warrior ability such as hamstring i would have to trinket because my healer can not cleanse that.

5. "in my opinion, this is one, if not the only thing rogues has that makes them so good in arena" Again, i am glad your opinion does not count, because if a 70% movement reduction is all i had going for me, i would reroll a dk and faceroll to 2200 in a heartbeat. As mindless as people think playing a rogue is, we do have to use our cooldowns in exactly the right way during a situation or we lose. If we cloak too early, we die, if we trinket too early we die, if we evasion late we die...etc etc.

6. "and all you rogues/priests that say it doesnt need a nerf, then u either suck hard, or you need to get your head of of your ass" I believe you are the one QQ about an ability that your paladin can cleanse over and over and over again. And how do you see this nerf as effecting rogue/priest comps? Here is a scenario for you to think of.

Rogue saps pally, priest dots up warrior, rogue opens on warrior, pally trinkets the sap and gets feared by the priest, pally bubbles to heal warrior, priest mass dispels, paladin gets blinded, warrior is permastunned during this whole encountered and or dismantled to do any damage and is dead.

7. "this nerf should atleast make it possible for teams like mine warrior/paladin, to keep the priest of my paladin and away from mana burns, and dont start "Your paladins should not LoS" cause they still need to heal me with the rogue on my ass" I FAIL to see how nerfing crippling poison will keep the priest away from your pally, since all you have to do is go zerker stance, intercept, hamstring.

8. "a rogue has alot of mitigation, yes dodge -> overpower" I have Full Season 5 gear including 4 piece deadly 1 piece hateful and full off piece deadly and i have 25% dodge. Dodge is not the king as it used to be in prior seasons. Also it has diminishing returns so it is not at 25% at all times. However i only PvP with 4 piece deadly, and the rest nax 25 best in slots including a calamitys grasp and 2 sinister revenges. Which at that point my dodge drops down to 19%

9. "but i do miss alot of Mortal strikes (wich btw, like my hamstring cost rage and a gcd)" Why are you not hit capped? I am hit capped which is 5% if you didnt know, and i RARELY miss an eviscarate or kidney or anything else.

10. "its not only warrior/paladin teams, its practicly any team that has a melee other then a rogue" Please give me some examples ? Feral Druids and shapeshift? Ret pallys and freedom? DKs and deathgrip? Warriors and intercept?

11. "if u do not agree, give me a reason why, like i have given my reasons why i think the priest/rogue setup is so powerfull" I have given all my reasons to your questions and comments but i still FAIL to see how you went from Crippling poison 70% movement reduction is OP to Priest/rogue 2v2 is OP.

12. "Reduce the energie cost of shiv to 10/5 energie, for any speed of weapon, and when you use Shiv, you cripple your target reducing movement speed by 70% (this should make it abit harder on a rogue, other then just bashing all your buttons, putting out max dmg and crippling/wounding your target)" I would love my enery cost of shiv to be reduced to 5 energy . Would you like to know why? BECAUSE WHEN A HEALER IS MASHING HIS CLEANSE BUTTON, THEN I CAN MASH ME SHIV BUTTON FASTER TO APPLY THE POISON IN MY OFFHAND ON THE TARGET.

Seems like you did 0 homework on the actual rogue class and its ability and why we are so viable in pvp. Also, you did even LESS homework on the priest/rogue comp to understand why it too is so viable in 2v2.

BUT...i do know what you did....you went I R PLATE....Partner IS PLATE 2, WE ROXorz ARENAs ROFLMAO. WHy we lose to leather and clothie I EAT CLOTHIE Why puny rogue kill PLATE PALLY.....ZOMFGIMBANERFNAO. *logs into MMO champion* Durrr WHy Me and pally lose to rogue priest again....durrr...durrr O YAR i not move so fast *Clicks on new post* "NERF CRIPPLING POISON"

You sir, need to find a mage, get an intelect buff, and try this whole thing one more time.

EDIT: WHO DOES YOUR PALLY USE HAND OF FREEDOM ON FFS IF THE ROGUE IS ON YOU....i just realized this......Serious question....who DOES the pally use FREEDOM ON!

never in my life would i have expected some one to have their ass handed to them so brutally via a video game forum,
you sir,
are pure win.

[Pheonixis]

He said melee classes.. not melee specs..

And the paladin isn't a melee class. Ah, right...