Ulduar gear for Prot warrior

[Gron]

Hi all,

As prot warrior I have tried to maximize HP and avoidance Pre-Ulduar days.

I have 30k HP unbuffed and 45% dodge+parry + 5% miss, 20% Block rating, around 1000 block value.
Gear from 25 Ulduar seems to bring less dodge+parry than my current gear, maybe gives 100 armor more (not that much), and seems block rating is added instead of parry.

I feel the pure 50% avoidance (without any trinket use or CD) is great, and a bit hesitant to move into the block rating items and start loosing avoidance. I know you can say avoidance is RNG, but the more you have (over 50%) you will see it become exponentally better and better.

What are your views to T8 set, plate gear and replacing Sarth 2D(3D) chest with other items?

[proga]

Choose items with max Stamina, chant for Stamina, gem for Stamina. Just don't forget to be expertise capped.
Stamina is king for tanks, especially progressing in Ulduar.

[chunx0r]

As a healer i disagree with everything that man just said.

[proga]

me?

There is not fights in Ulduar where you can stop healing MT. Almost all bosses 2shots you. Fights lasts for 5-10 minutes.

If you have avoidance tank then after he gets first hit there is 1.5-2 seconds to heal a lot of HP so that he'll be able to take 2nd hit and won't die.
If it's stamina tank you have to heal less HP to make tank able to take 2nd hit without dying. You can just press instants with all healers in raid and he is ok for next hit (shield/holy shock/riptide).

Stamina tank still has 50-60% avoidance raid buffed, going for additional max 5-10% but losing 4-5k HP doesn't worth it.

If you check top guilds all warriors went for 33-33.5k HP unbuffed before Ulduar.

[Gron]

If you say to up HP even more even on the expense of dropping avoidance, what about this thread here:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=52247.0

Btw I don't have any issues in Ulduar, just see that my stats for avoidance will likely drop with taking better gear from Ulduar.

[eitzo]

the regular drops from ulduar even in 25m aren't all crash hot for min-maxing stats, hell I even got some gloves with armor pen from Ignis 10 >.>. But there's some really nice hard-mode items, such as the handguards of revitalisation and legplates of the endless void. HP is important to go for, but still maintaining atleast ~20% on each avoidance stat is sensible. Threatwise alot of people have dropped some of their expertise and hit items, i.e. opted for the obsidian war beads over boundless ambition, but ye still keep some expertise and hit.

although the deep wound spec is still ok for all of ulduar, some tanks have chosen to max out the block and dodge talents, others also improved demo shout an reduced SW cd. switching up a couple points can help when ur current transition gear is a little whack

May just be me, but I've noticed a fair amount of parry items so far from our 25m runs, I reckon that this might be to combat diminishing returns on having already high lvls of dodge?

[Frankminimia]

May just be me, but I've noticed a fair amount of parry items so far from our 25m runs, I reckon that this might be to combat diminishing returns on having already high lvls of dodge?

I agree. More parry is also great for my bladewarding enchant, which may be another reason for increase in parry?

[Xenryusho]

Gear, gem, chant stamina. Avoidance shouldn't break 23% imo (for block or parry, that is if you have to sacrifice someone else to get it, if you go over 23% without giving anything else up you're golden.) If you get block that's fantastic don't itemize for it though.

Diminishing returns on avoidance makes you suffer super hard if you try to stack one avoidance too high neglecting other stats. You should have 31k~ hp before starting ulduar (stam trinkets are a must) and by the end of it 35k~ish and try to mantain 33-34kish when gearing for more threat stats when you outgear the instance all together (This is all unbuffed).

the regular drops from ulduar even in 25m aren't all crash hot for min-maxing stats, hell I even got some gloves with armor pen from Ignis 10 >.>. But there's some really nice hard-mode items, such as the handguards of revitalisation and legplates of the endless void. HP is important to go for, but still maintaining atleast ~20% on each avoidance stat is sensible. Threatwise alot of people have dropped some of their expertise and hit items, i.e. opted for the obsidian war beads over boundless ambition, but ye still keep some expertise and hit.

although the deep wound spec is still ok for all of ulduar, some tanks have chosen to max out the block and dodge talents, others also improved demo shout an reduced SW cd. switching up a couple points can help when ur current transition gear is a little whack

May just be me, but I've noticed a fair amount of parry items so far from our 25m runs, I reckon that this might be to combat diminishing returns on having already high lvls of dodge?

I really like you. Cheers to another warrior who knows what they're doing. (listen to this guy ^ he pretty much sums it up)

[FacelessAngel333]

Parry scales worse than any other stat in the game.

Ex. I was in Naxx and the Rune of Repulsion dropped. I was in DPS gear at the time and my Informant claimed that the trinket would provide 2% passive parry. When I put on my tank gear (19% parry) it had been scaled down to 1%.

That's pretty harsh.

I've been tanking for my guild for a long time and through a lot of new content...I always, always, always chose stam/dodge over any other stats. I felt that it was best for progression kills. When something has been on farm for a long time, I might go with hit/expertise to let the DPS open up, but survival is key in new kills and H.P. is the only guaranteed breathing room you can give your healers.

[Xenryusho]

Parry scales worse than any other stat in the game.

Ex. I was in Naxx and the Rune of Repulsion dropped. I was in DPS gear at the time and my Informant claimed that the trinket would provide 2% passive parry. When I put on my tank gear (19% parry) it had been scaled down to 1%.

That's pretty harsh.

I've been tanking for my guild for a long time and through a lot of new content...I always, always, always chose stam/dodge over any other stats. I felt that it was best for progression kills. When something has been on farm for a long time, I might go with hit/expertise to let the DPS open up, but survival is key in new kills and H.P. is the only guaranteed breathing room you can give your healers.

I hope you're not stacking dodge too far over parry. I mean getting them about equal as you approach the 25% mark is more important then having one of the two high.

In other words 23% and 23% would be better then 30% and 20% due to the diminishing returns. But yes stamina is the most important stat you can have for ulduar, especially when you have general bashing you for 28k you don't want to have to rely on a rng dodge or parry proc to survive.

[heerobya]

Stamina stacking is no longer worth it.

Why?

30k hits from bosses.

I have a little over 30k unbuffed. About 40k buffed.

If I gemmed/geared/for stamina, I'm up to like 32k unbuffed.

2k health is nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing.

2k more health is 200 more stamina. That's a LOT of stats wasted on stamina.

What I do have? about 28% raid buffed dodge and about 20% parry. 48% avoidance + 5% miss + 5% miss from defense = 58% avoidance.

58% avoidance = a LOT more useful then any amount of stamina that a Warrior Tank can feaseably get.

If I could get to 50k+ buffed health I STILL wouldn't do it if I had to drop my avoidances. Why?

Glyph of Shield Wall and Glyph of Last Stand.

2 minute cooldowns on these are DESIGNED to make up for our lack of stamina/health in comparison to other tanks.

Only boss I haven't tanked is Hodir because I never got a Frost Resist set... and of course the bosses I haven't seen yet like General and Yogg.

[Xenryusho]

Stamina stacking is no longer worth it.

Why?

30k hits from bosses.

I have a little over 30k unbuffed. About 40k buffed.

If I gemmed/geared/for stamina, I'm up to like 32k unbuffed.

2k health is nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing.

2k more health is 200 more stamina. That's a LOT of stats wasted on stamina.

What I do have? about 28% raid buffed dodge and about 20% parry. 48% avoidance + 5% miss + 5% miss from defense = 58% avoidance.

58% avoidance = a LOT more useful then any amount of stamina that a Warrior Tank can feaseably get.

If I could get to 50k+ buffed health I STILL wouldn't do it if I had to drop my avoidances. Why?

Glyph of Shield Wall and Glyph of Last Stand.

2 minute cooldowns on these are DESIGNED to make up for our lack of stamina/health in comparison to other tanks.

Only boss I haven't tanked is Hodir because I never got a Frost Resist set... and of course the bosses I haven't seen yet like General and Yogg.

I'm going to have to disagree but we won't fight here it's pointless. I like you and I don't want to go off on you and all that so let's leave our differences in the "Say not to stam thread" but even with 2 minute cooldowns I still feel like we've been cheated in comparison to Death knights, don't you?

[XtreO]

Stamina stacking is no longer worth it.

Why?

30k hits from bosses.

I have a little over 30k unbuffed. About 40k buffed.

If I gemmed/geared/for stamina, I'm up to like 32k unbuffed.

2k health is nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing.

2k more health is 200 more stamina. That's a LOT of stats wasted on stamina.

What I do have? about 28% raid buffed dodge and about 20% parry. 48% avoidance + 5% miss + 5% miss from defense = 58% avoidance.

58% avoidance = a LOT more useful then any amount of stamina that a Warrior Tank can feaseably get.

If I could get to 50k+ buffed health I STILL wouldn't do it if I had to drop my avoidances. Why?

Glyph of Shield Wall and Glyph of Last Stand.

2 minute cooldowns on these are DESIGNED to make up for our lack of stamina/health in comparison to other tanks.

Only boss I haven't tanked is Hodir because I never got a Frost Resist set... and of course the bosses I haven't seen yet like General and Yogg.

If you want to leave the kill to RNG, then do. But don't trick others into thinking it's the way to go - because it's not after DR was implemented on avoidance stats.

[vermmn]

Stamina stacking is no longer worth it.

Why?

30k hits from bosses.

I have a little over 30k unbuffed. About 40k buffed.

If I gemmed/geared/for stamina, I'm up to like 32k unbuffed.

2k health is nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing.

2k more health is 200 more stamina. That's a LOT of stats wasted on stamina.

What I do have? about 28% raid buffed dodge and about 20% parry. 48% avoidance + 5% miss + 5% miss from defense = 58% avoidance.

58% avoidance = a LOT more useful then any amount of stamina that a Warrior Tank can feaseably get.

If I could get to 50k+ buffed health I STILL wouldn't do it if I had to drop my avoidances. Why?

Glyph of Shield Wall and Glyph of Last Stand.

2 minute cooldowns on these are DESIGNED to make up for our lack of stamina/health in comparison to other tanks.

Only boss I haven't tanked is Hodir because I never got a Frost Resist set... and of course the bosses I haven't seen yet like General and Yogg.

Iv seen Warriors tank Hodir without frost gear.
they used stam gear.
l2stam

[heerobya]

Iv seen Warriors tank Hodir without frost gear.
they used stam gear.

Frozen Blows - Reduces Hodir's physical damage by 70%, but grants each of his attacks 31,062 (Heroic: 40,000) additional Frost damage, for 20 seconds. Enemies take 4,000 additional Frost damage every 2 seconds for the duration of the spell.

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=32845

They were idiots then. Having 400+ FR is 100000x better then having 2-3k more health.

Though I guess 10-man he'd only hit for 40k if you don't resist any of it or dodge/block/parry any....

[Melonberry]

Those heals are coming no matter what. Stam stacking makes it overheal for less, avoidance stacking gives more time to top you off. Either way you are likely getting healed for the same amount. Stacking one or the other doesn't make you easier to heal.

[proga]

If you say to up HP even more even on the expense of dropping avoidance, what about this thread here:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=52247.0

Btw I don't have any issues in Ulduar, just see that my stats for avoidance will likely drop with taking better gear from Ulduar.

I didn't check his armory well, but as people posted there he has smthng like 14-15% on dodge/parry. I don't know what gear he wear, but in max stamina preUlduar best possible gear you should have:
32.5k HP unbuffed (cause I have alchemy, I get additional hp with Flask up, enchnaters/miners/LWers should have 33k HP)
19-21% dodge
19-21% parry
540-545 def

With raids BoK/MoTW/totem with agility adds about 5% more dodge, making this in sum:
20+20+11.4+5 = 56.4% approx minus diminishing returns on dodge/parry ratings.
You can get additional avoidance with moonkin/hunter if needed.

That is ok and enough.

Someone posted about 30k hits.
Learn 2 Buff yourself and Debuff bosses in raid.
If you are doing everything right I don't know boss in Ulduar who hits for more than 24k (when you are buffed properly and boss is debuffed properly).

Also properly buffed you'll have about 44.5k HP buffed (without any Ulduar gear), so considering you have Earth Shield on you anb some HoTs NO bosses can 2shot you ever.
3 shotting is possible if they go in a row and your healers slack for 3 seconds (between first 24k hit when you have to be healed and 3rd 24k hit when you had to be healed already)

[Enders]

I didn't check his armory well, but as people posted there he has smthng like 14-15% on dodge/parry. I don't know what gear he wear, but in max stamina preUlduar best possible gear you should have:
32.5k HP unbuffed (cause I have alchemy, I get additional hp with Flask up, enchnaters/miners/LWers should have 33k HP)
19-21% dodge
19-21% parry
540-545 def

With raids BoK/MoTW/totem with agility adds about 5% more dodge, making this in sum:
20+20+11.4+5 = 56.4% approx minus diminishing returns on dodge/parry ratings.
You can get additional avoidance with moonkin/hunter if needed.

That is ok and enough.

Someone posted about 30k hits.
Learn 2 Buff yourself and Debuff bosses in raid.
If you are doing everything right I don't know boss in Ulduar who hits for more than 24k (when you are buffed properly and boss is debuffed properly).

Also properly buffed you'll have about 44.5k HP buffed (without any Ulduar gear), so considering you have Earth Shield on you anb some HoTs NO bosses can 2shot you ever.
3 shotting is possible if they go in a row and your healers slack for 3 seconds (between first 24k hit when you have to be healed and 3rd 24k hit when you had to be healed already)

Armory isn't factoring talents. Add 5% dodge and parry and you'll have his real avoidance stats. Also, at least pre-nerf, Ignis was hitting for over 30k with 2 adds up, even when he was fully debuffed. I definitely preferred avoidance on that fight when I was attempting it.

[Gron]

Thanks for all those who contributed, this is a great thread!
I did not know about diminishing returns for avoidance, that is a very good to think about when gearing.
Also the fact that we can say 23-23% is favorable for dodge/parry is a very useful to read.

Btw I just changed my T7 pants to T8 pants, and the stats are not that amazingly godlike change - e.g. +30 stam, +70 armor, - some parry + some block value. I think Naxx was a bit "overpupmed" in terms of stats, and Ulduar heroic modes likely to try to even that out. Hard mode items do seem very nice and something to keep us going back for more.

[nerthus]

Anyone heard of gathering different sets of gear? Stamina gear, avoidance, block gear, you don't need to choose, they're all good but for different bosses. For example I'd never use stamina gear for Yogg, tps is the way to go there, or Ignis hits quite hard with lots of raid damage so there I would use avoidance, and on Hodir stamina gear.